Expand and Exterminate version 0.42

[hrmph]

So what is the latest version of EE? Still my favorite spring game btw..

[Neddie]

0.46 is the latest Deci-balance release. 0.42 is the latest Fang release.

[zwzsg]

But Deci balance was done with Fang approval, so it's "official", no?

[Sheekel]

re balance and re release .163 for epic win

[1v0ry_k1ng]

/fang rage

[Gota]

re balance and re release .163 for epic win

yes plz

[Das Bruce]

It's not happening and you're not helping the situation so please stop saying it.

[smoth]

But Deci balance was done with Fang approval, so it's "official", no?

it was but I have talked with fang and he didn't like several things deci did(all of which/most of which I cannot remember the details of)

[Neddie]

Yeah, I remember something about that. Some of it is on the forums, I think.

[1v0ry_k1ng]

at least some of decis changes were him fixing exploits I abused in 0.42 (like the GD ultra fast laser tank airdrop).

edit: oh this happened previously/.

[Fanger]

Unless deci did some undocumented changes, none of what he did in anyway nerfed or altered the effectiveness of air transports or laser tank rushes. So honestly I dont know what your talking about. He mostly nerfed the shit out of aliens. Most of it was also econ tweaks. I can link you to the changelog its here :
http://smoth.net/foram/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2369
I didnt see any alterations to laser tanks or air transports beyond an LOS tweak due to treese

I am not releasing .163 dont ask anymore, for one that was pre model change and those models are horrible and not mine, secondly the balance was kinda fubar then and its far to much work. come up with a way to fix the scale problems without removing it entirely and causing the game to become something else.

[Das Bruce]

This implies you're working on 0.42...

[Fanger]

Id be willing to, If I could get some help on what I dont know, (yes smoth I know you have offered Im just stating this). Also If I can get people who will actually play and give me some feedback, and if we can find some way to try and resolve this issue without a scale reversion (as this would take too much work) but I need the "cant see shit" people to work with me on a solution that will help them resolve the issue otherwise we will be at an impasse.. SO IDEAS PEOPLE GIVE ME IDEAS!

[Gota]

Idea #1.
Mimic Supcom FA camera plus restrict the camera to only zoom out to the point you see the entire map and not more.
1.1
Allow players to select a group or just a spot on the map and by pressing a single button they should be able to zoom 1:on the spot or group to the distance that will allow to micro the group(the distance needs to depend on the group's disparsel if you have a group of units selected or just a distance from the map based on the map's size)
2:zoom completely out to the camera's max(right when you see the entire map)
This will work roughly like tab only improved with features above and rebinded to something more convenient.


Idea #2
get,new,sharp icons.
2.1
Allow icons to show a unit's facing?(not sure if its possible but if it is it would be sweet).
2.2
allow players to see a unit's hp from icon distance(or allow the player to see selected group's overall average hp from icon distance).
2.3
Make all structures bigger.

Idea #3
Decide exactly how you want players to experience your game,both in how they will control whats going on and in how the game itself will play and what will it revolve around.
It seems you can get pretty creative since several people have volunteered to help you.
In any case,IMO,if you want this new style of playing to work right and be fun you need to tailor everything for it.


Suggestions for gameplay:
----------------------------------
horde:
Many units on average on the battlefield.
Game based on managing formations and masses of units with strongly different turning speeds for different unit types and restricted firing arcs so that different formations/placing of units gives them different qualities.
this needs tools to allow the player to easily give precise orders and control the battlefield when in possession of massive unit amounts:

----------------------------------------------

Increase average unit amounts and increase the queue of labs when you press a unit's icon to select 5 unit's when u normally click and 1 when you click + shift.
it would benefit the game,in this case,to add a queue list with the ability to drag units into it so you can see the order of say,your repeat queue and change it dynamically(when many units are produced all the time players will be forced to use repeat almost always so it has to be convenient).

you'd need to make units lighter and die faster and move faster.
You'll need to modify the formation widget to allow to form formations(the AI will either decide by itself which type to put first which second and so on,in case of mixed unit types, or you could have a formation widget that allows you to select units,stretch a formation freeze it and move only the order in which different types of units are placed).
example:
if you have 5 unit types selected you stretch a formation which places all unit types one behind the other in some order than the formation freezes and u can change the order in which the different types are placed).
(you could also have a formation widget that allows you press a key after you select your units that will allow you to place one unit type after another anywhere you want and than let go of the key and unfreeze the formation(each time you move to selecting the formation of another unit type there has to be a visual indicator to the type of units you are now placing).

It might be wise to add an indirect ordering system where you are able to just click a spot on the battlefield and a menu will open that will show all the unit types you can build ATM.
The player will be able to select the amount of units he want to be urgently build and sent there(first version ca send them in a direct line from the lab).

I'd also suggest making a transport system that works:
The player selects a group of units and orders transporters based on the lvl of transporters available to him.
the transporters bulding speed is based on the amount of labs you have that can build them and those labs stop building everything else while making them.
As a transporter is build(in the lab but it isn't actually there) it descends on the unit from the top and grabs it(as if it iscoming from higher orbit).
You can cancel transportation orders by just moving the units that still don't have transporters finished for them.

To create all these control schemes other existing widgets can be modified,like the formation widget,some of CA's widgets,the camera widget and maybe some other ones i cant think of ATM.

[knorke]

Game based on managing formations and masses of units

formations? just fight-click your blob man. or make a line of units, its the most effective anyway.

you'd need to make units lighter and die faster and move faster.

great, now you can watch different colored icon groups just disappear when they meet each other.

I'd also suggest making a transport system that works:

One of the things spring does better than most rts is the transport system imo, select transports, draw a load-circle, move command, unload-circle.

p.u.r.e. has symbols under the models, some glowing circle with an arrow i think. maybe try something like this?

I dunno, but wouldnt this work? like selectioncircles but not only circles.
Because a symbol under the tank is kind of like units+icons combined...

scale reversion (as this would take too much work)

still it would be worth it imo. Even the best icons will still be boring 2D images.

[JohannesH]

Idea #1.
Mimic Supcom FA camera plus restrict the camera to only zoom out to the point you see the entire map and not more.
1.1
Allow players to select a group or just a spot on the map and by pressing a single button they should be able to zoom 1:on the spot or group to the distance that will allow to micro the group(the distance needs to depend on the group's disparsel if you have a group of units selected or just a distance from the map based on the map's size)
2:zoom completely out to the camera's max(right when you see the entire map)
This will work roughly like tab only improved with features above and rebinded to something more convenient.

Or, stay at microing range and move with minimap...

formations? just fight-click your blob man. or make a line of units, its the most effective anyway.

wtf are you serious xD

[KDR_11k]

Well, I had a formation system in THIS that moved the units into positions depending on their role (e.g. short ranged combat units went to the front, special support units to the very rear independent of their weapon, tougher units went into more of a line while powerful attackers with low HP went into a "claw" formation to better attack large targets) but people didn't like it and while units weren't that easy to tell apart they had color-coded trails (color based on the main weapon, e.g. kinetic weapons were yellow, plasma light blue, missiles white, anti-torpedo green, etc) that made it easy to tell which was which. Maybe you could add lua to show small colored markers on top of units to mark their weapons? That would work better than Spring's icons because those can't have colors.

[JohannesH]

Customformations is quite good enough for making excellent formations. Making units take formation by themselves is taking control away from the player and i dont like that...

[overkill]

If you comeback Fang, I will seriously love you.

Of course I will be up to play testing/useful feed back, and maybe more depending on time constraints.

[smoth]

What abou a variation on the xray/select widget that highlighs the unit a certain color when mouse over/select?

Orange flash for flamer

red glow for arty

white xray effect for cannon

And so on..