Expand and Exterminate version 0.42

[Fanger]

Zwzsg, you dont even like EE.. The problem with increasing the scale is that you loose things like ships and larger units which dont function well. Small units dont work well, and neither do large units. So all you can get is medium sized units. Thats old and boring... Frankly Im not trying to copy sup com completely I dont like the icon war either, but there is no way to have realistic ranges without having to zoom out to see them.. I dont particularly want to reduce the ranges I like haveing them larger..

[Fanger]

Alot of these issues seem like they would be allievated somewhat by a better set of icons and an enhanced UI with better tooltips.. that is all lua work that I cant do.

Further can we please work on a way to fix this scale issue without having to revert completely, that is annoying for two reasons

1. I have to rescale all the ranges, models, and a bunch of other annoying issues
2. We would have to rebalance alot of damages because of the range reduction

I really dont want to have to do all that work, so if we could figure a way to work around this problem without reengineering the whole setup thatd be cool..

[zwzsg]

Zwzsg, you dont even like EE..

but there is no way to have realistic ranges

The trick is to not aim for realistic ranges, but for ranges that makes a fun and interesting game.

Think of it as keeping the range large like you want, but increasing model size so that 3d models can be seen, and so the way units takes room plays a role in the gameplay.

Realism is irrelevant anyway in a game where units are built in mere seconds on the battlefield.

Though I'm afraid that all those people bitching about the EE scale won't ever make you realise maybe they have a point but merely render you more bitter, and withdraw further from this place.

- oh a new Fanger post! -

1. I have to rescale all the ranges, models, and a bunch of other annoying issues
2. We would have to rebalance alot of damages because of the range reduction

I really dont want to have to do all that work, so if we could figure a way to work around this problem without reengineering the whole setup thatd be cool..

I'm sure people will be willing to help if you agree about the changes but wanna avoid the work. Would be the least of thing to do after all those cries over it.

[R-TEAM]

Hi,

Zwzsg, you dont even like EE.. The problem with increasing the scale is that you loose things like ships and larger units which dont function well. Small units dont work well, and neither do large units. So all you can get is medium sized units. Thats old and boring... Frankly Im not trying to copy sup com completely I dont like the icon war either, but there is no way to have realistic ranges without having to zoom out to see them.. I dont particularly want to reduce the ranges I like haveing them larger..

101% AGREE !!

I love the more realistic way EE use the unit and range scales.
My favorite for this is ATM the "small mod" from yuritch.
It haves a little bit realistic range and visibility scale ...
If you like to play a game who the unit cant more see than 5 times
his size and shot only 4 times his size .. good - play any of the TA mods and be happy - and i dont say it is bad at all !
It makes fun - but i love to have a more realistic scale in shot range and visibility/radar range - and differs in unit size too - a battle ship who REAL the units pass in the store volumen would be nice.
It has enough mods who iss the scale out of all logic in all terms ...

Regards
R-TEAM

[KDR_11k]

Realistic scale is a bit longer ranged, look at Air Raid.

[Das Bruce]

Realistic ranges are silly, but EE gives something with atleast a passing resemblance to realism compared to most other RTS games.

[1v0ry_k1ng]

Alot of these issues seem like they would be allievated somewhat by a better set of icons and an enhanced UI with better tooltips.. that is all lua work that I cant do.

Better icons shouldnt be too difficult, right?

[Neddie]

Alot of these issues seem like they would be allievated somewhat by a better set of icons and an enhanced UI with better tooltips.. that is all lua work that I cant do.

Better icons shouldnt be too difficult, right?

If you're willing to wait for me to finish my present icon work, I may be able to do them.

[1v0ry_k1ng]

I will have a bash at icons also

my only (non-asthetic) complaint with the game itself are that t1 laser tanks are superior to t1 battle tanks in almost every situation (and absolutely butcher low HP URC units)

edit:
can we have larger buildings back? only the epic scale mex looks way too small

[Google_Frog]

my only (non-asthetic) complaint with the game itself are that t1 laser tanks are superior to t1 battle tanks in almost every situation (and absolutely butcher low HP URC units)

Better than firebug drop? Last game I played firebug drop seemed a bit too powerful but it was long ago.

A better icon system could be based around weapon type (rocket, laser, flame, AA, plasma etc..) overlayed on the tech level of a unit. This would cover most units and recognising each unit type would be easy.

[1v0ry_k1ng]

laser tank > firebug

I was thinking size diffrence for tech (small, medium, large, epic)
symbol of some kind for unit type (maybe the ones used in unit portraits?)
circular for units, square for buildings, triangle for air, semicircular for ships

[Google_Frog]

laser tank > firebug

I was thinking size diffrence for tech (small, medium, large, epic)
symbol of some kind for unit type (maybe the ones used in unit portraits?)
circular for units, square for buildings, triangle for air, semicircular for ships

What about when the firebug drops directly onto it? Or the lasertank's factory.

I can't actually remember the unit portraits but if they have a simple little icon for weapon type it would be a very good idea to use that.

[1v0ry_k1ng]

yeah Im pretty sure they do have one.

Lasertank will defeat firebugs even with drop micro I think, and regardless Lasertanks are more suited to drops because last time I checked GD is the only faction with a t1 air transport. Firebug is great for rushing buildings but is very easily repulsed by units

[Neddie]

I was thinking of making base icons of unit classes, scaled to match the unit size, and then putting weapon type symbols in the center of them. I dislike coded non-representative shapes, but I also don't want to reproduce the 1944 icon style, which was selected before I took over those responsibilities.

[1v0ry_k1ng]

the circle/square/triange/semicircle scheme used in NOTA works extremely well. the addition of size for level and weapon type symbol should make it extemely legible.

if "base icons of unit classes" is anything but a simple shape, it'll look like dick; silouettes work terribly as icons.

[Neddie]

It all depends on how you do it, just because you haven't seen it done right doesn't mean it can't be. I think with simplified unit forms and carefully controlled use of the colour options it could work quite well. I think I can make it work.

Anyway, I find squares, circles and boxes ugly and generic... they're fine for minimap, since you can't really see what anything is there anyway, but they're terrible when you zoom out on the main map. I wonder if we can configure the two separately.

[KDR_11k]

The problem with silhouettes is that they show mostly the chassis of the unit which doesn't differ much between many EE units (e.g. the URC spiders all have spider legs that define their silhouette with the turret being the major difference).

[Pxtl]

The problem with silhouettes is that they show mostly the chassis of the unit which doesn't differ much between many EE units (e.g. the URC spiders all have spider legs that define their silhouette with the turret being the major difference).

I think the idea was chassis-silhouette + weapon icon.

Which would work well if the silhouettes were properly stylized to emphasize their unique features - a literalist silhouette would probably fail.

[Neddie]

The problem with silhouettes is that they show mostly the chassis of the unit which doesn't differ much between many EE units (e.g. the URC spiders all have spider legs that define their silhouette with the turret being the major difference).

I think the idea was chassis-silhouette + weapon icon.

Which would work well if the silhouettes were properly stylized to emphasize their unique features - a literalist silhouette would probably fail.

Precisely.

[Erik]

Actually i think the scale should be reasonable to see he units themselves, icons should be reserved for the radar map. We don't have a 3D engine here only to be forced to play with icons in order to keep overview. Same reason i quit playing Spring 1944 for.