Balanced Annihilation V5.8

RavingManiac · Post by **RavingManiac** » 16 Oct 2007, 14:52

Buff Fatboys and give both sides a T2 antispam flamethrower turret or flamethrower tank. That should solve late game flashspamming.

Saktoth · Post by **Saktoth** » 16 Oct 2007, 14:59

Kbots can be used effectively, but i think on the whole they havent gotten quite as much love as t2 vehicles have, which have been buffed quite a bit over the course of BA.

Wing, its obvious you've been having troubles against certain units, and have come here asking for advice on the correct strategies to beat those units (Even if it sounds an awful lot to everyone else like 'OMG! THATS OP!'). Try and be respectful and accept your education with some grace.

Despite what people have said, its much easier to reclaim DT's than it is to shoot them, but if you are determined to kill them get jK's healthbar widget, it has health bars for DT's. Still, commandos, spies, stilettos, emp-launchers and even the fake d-gun on a fake commander (but this isnt an optimal solution...) will get rid of DT's easily.

On resbots: It takes the full e cost of a unit to res it, not a trivial amount. With a Krogoth, against a good player, he will just d-gun the krogoth anyway. That doesnt leave a wreck, problem solved. Try to remember that a krogoth is t3 and if resbots were t2 you'd have them by then anyway.

Kbots are pretty weak compared to vechs and are much harder to use. Resbots gives them a small economic edge in mid game, and punish a vech player for a failed assault against a kbot player.

On ressing coms. When a commander goes up, everyone with two brain cells makes a b-line for it because they know that whoever gets that wreck will probably win the game. 2500 metal is enough to tech or spam a couple dozen flash. Ressing a commander takes a lot longer than reclaiming it. If you can secure a commander corpse well enough to be able to take the significant time it takes to res it, then you deserve it- and frankly, you probably could have done more with the 2.5k metal than with a combomb (Especially considering they'll probably just get the com metal themselves).

Pro strat: Blow your own com in a safe spot in your base and use it to tech. Seriously, 2.5k metal is worth a lot more than a commander by late t1.

Edit:

Buff Fatboys give both sides a T2 antispam flamethrower turret or flamethrower tank. That should solve late game flashspamming.

No.
Flash spam isnt a problem by the mid t2 game. Once you get Bulldogs, Gollies, vipers, berthas, and other long range AoE stuff up, they get chewed up by the dozen. They're only any good for rushing quickly through a breach in his line made by your heavier tanks to rip up his base.

Wingflier · Post by **Wingflier** » 16 Oct 2007, 18:01

Using Christ Taylor as a source of anything is just silly. Game designers aren't infallible and I doubt that he specifically decided every aspect of TA. There are so many other changes in BA it doesn't even matter.

I doubt he decided every specific matter, but he definitely agreed to what was actually put into the game didn't he?

I disagree about your point about the amount of changes in BA. Most of the changes are in terms of balance which just consists of editing some numbers in a text document. The only other difference is that there are probably 20 or so new units altogether, which isn't so farfetched as Chris was continuing to add more before Cavedog got shut down. He never, however, did something so radical, at any point of his TA career, as moving a unit to a different tier in a game patch.

By that logic noone should ever touch any number in OTA. After all, the balance is the way Chris Taylor designed it and can you claim to know better than Chris Taylor? By that logic Balanced Annihilation should never have existed because obviously only Chris Taylor is qualified to balance TA.

Perhaps you were unaware that Cavedog was disbanded long before Chris had finished his work on the game. This nullifies your argument as if he were still here, we probably wouldn't have to balance it ourselves.

Yes we do. Look what Chris Taylor did to supcom. He's not infallible. Most BA devs have played TA in some variation roughly 10 times the amount CT has.

Could any amount of time played make your more knowledgeable about the game than the person who designed it from the ground up?

And what is wrong with Supreme Commander? Last time I checked, it's about 1000 times more popular than Spring, and Spring is free. (Don't take that as an insult towards Spring, I love it or else I wouldn't be here. I just don't see what is so bad about SC.)

KingRaptor wrote:Contrary to popular belief, you can't just walk your comm into enemy lines and destroy over nine thousand metal worth of d-fenz.

ravingmaniac wrote:Nowadays, all you need is a single atlas for a T1 defense line and a dragonfly with a few peepers for heavy AA. You have to admit, with everyone receiving a free nuke at the start of a game, only the honor of players prevents every single Spring match from degenerating into a combomb fest.

'Nuff said.

LOOKS LIKE SOMEONE FORGOT THAT THERE ARE LINEAGE AND COMM DIES= GAME ENDS OPTIONS TOO?

Which are never used? I'm talking about the games that are actually played thanks.

well you cant really spam single units with t2 bots and expect to win.

as i've said before like 20 times in different places, a mix of some zeus tanking and fido/mav and sniper being a step behind making dps is a nice combo that can take you pretty far.

Or..You can just play Core and spend that same amount of resources on mass Cans and get about twice as far.

Wing

edit:

Wing, its obvious you've been having troubles against certain units, and have come here asking for advice on the correct strategies to beat those units (Even if it sounds an awful lot to everyone else like 'OMG! THATS OP!'). Try and be respectful and accept your education with some grace.

I wasn't really asking for advice here, or else I would have asked for advice.. I don't ever remember saying anything to the effect of OMG THAT'S OP! so I don't really understand where you're coming from. I simply had a few concerns with small game balance and wanted your opinion. If I felt like saying OMG THATS OP, then I would say "OMG THATS OP."

Sleksa · Post by **Sleksa** » 16 Oct 2007, 18:23

stop posting shit please.

Quote:
LOOKS LIKE SOMEONE FORGOT THAT THERE ARE LINEAGE AND COMM DIES= GAME ENDS OPTIONS TOO?
Which are never used? I'm talking about the games that are actually played thanks.

- your 6v6 speedmetal/greenfields game experiences are ignored in this thread. please get some experience in proper maps and then come to spew your shit in this thread again

well you cant really spam single units with t2 bots and expect to win.

as i've said before like 20 times in different places, a mix of some zeus tanking and fido/mav and sniper being a step behind making dps is a nice combo that can take you pretty far.
Or..You can just play Core and spend that same amount of resources on mass Cans and get about twice as far.

mass cans vs snipers?

Could any amount of time played make your more knowledgeable about the game than the person who designed it from the ground up?

if the persons who designed the game _WOULD_ have known more than the players, then why the fuck are there things like nanoshielding, offscreening, getting moho mmakers to work without building them and linebombing in the game?

or are you saying that ct purposefully made these things?

tombom · Post by **tombom** » 16 Oct 2007, 18:28

Game designers are not infallible. They do not know everything in the game. They can make typos and bugs. That's why balance and gameplay feedback is important. There are a huge number of changes in BA. What Chris Taylor thinks has 0 relevance to what is changed now. Seen as nobody thinks similar to you about these things, you better come up with better reasoning than "I think the original designer thought something different".

Drone_Fragger · Post by **Drone_Fragger** » 16 Oct 2007, 18:33

Hey anyone remember Vampire: The Masquerade-Bloodlines? Literally the buggiest game ever made and a great way to start the source engines career right? The Devs MEANT it to be unplayably bad and buggy amirite?

Wingflier · Post by **Wingflier** » 16 Oct 2007, 18:59

stop posting shit please.

No you?

- your 6v6 speedmetal/greenfields game experiences are ignored in this thread. please get some experience in proper maps and then come to spew your shit in this thread again

I don't play speedmetal. And the reason I bring up the 6v6 games again is because, from experience, they are the most popular. Why are you shooting them down like 1v1 and 2v2 is all that matters? And is the cursing really necessary?

mass cans vs snipers?

Did I say versus? Because I don't remember that. Last I remember we were talking about which group would go farther. Think before you post?

if the persons who designed the game _WOULD_ have known more than the players, then why the fuck are there things like nanoshielding, offscreening, getting moho mmakers to work without building them and linebombing in the game?

or are you saying that ct purposefully made these things?

He made some mistakes and never got the chance to fix them. That doesn't mean he is ignorant about the game. I'm sure was he given more time he would have rectified these mistakes.

Sleksa, you imply that the things I post are completely retarded and not even worth reading hence the "stop posting shit please." But I would say the quite the contrary is true. I just wasted about 2 minutes of my life reading your post.

Forboding Angel · Post by **Forboding Angel** » 16 Oct 2007, 19:16

I have the solution!

Play Funta -- I'm only kidding guys, just trying to inject some humor into this thoroughly depressing thread.

tombom · Post by **tombom** » 16 Oct 2007, 19:16

And the reason I bring up the 6v6 games again is because, from experience, they are the most popular.

This is objectively completely incorrect.

MR.D · Post by **MR.D** » 16 Oct 2007, 19:19

Sleksa has yet to bring anything usefull to any discussion, and you can just forget about him making any relevant contribution to any improvement of the actual gameplay through suggestion.

Its not his job to make anything better, he is here to "Stop you" from suggesting anything that may make the mod better, and more "Balanced".

BA is a closed mod, and they don't take suggestions from anyone less than godly, because they themselves have lived their lifes playing this game, and they know everything.

So just stop trying ^^

Sleksa · Post by **Sleksa** » 16 Oct 2007, 19:56

MR.D wrote:Its not his job to make anything better, he is here to "Stop you" from suggesting anything that may make the mod better, and more "Balanced".

BA is a closed mod, and they don't take suggestions from anyone less than godly, because they themselves have lived their lifes playing this game, and they know everything.

So just stop trying ^^

if you take that -stop suggesting antyhing that may make the mod better and more balanced part and change it into;
-stop suggesting your thoughts that you got in a 6v6 greenfields game about tier 6 krogothdemonwarriors that make the mod shittier , it becomes true

Did I say versus? Because I don't remember that. Last I remember we were talking about which group would go farther. Think before you post?

maybe you could think before you post? its not like the whole fucking t2 consists of only cans(core) versus zippers(arm) as you like to think.

a few versions ago people were crying that sniper is the most imbalanced thing in the world after jesus, and now you are saying that arm players suddenly are unable to spam snipers against mass cans? ok

you imply that the things I post are completely retarded and not even worth reading hence the "stop posting shit please."

im not implying it. im saying that you are a noob with retarded ideas and a false sense of the gameplay and im asking you to stop posting shit?

Hellspawn · Post by **Hellspawn** » 16 Oct 2007, 19:59

Actually Sleksa gives decent opinions when on other hand majority of people here just talks noobish nonsense.

Skid · Post by **Skid** » 16 Oct 2007, 20:13

Hellspawn wrote:Actually Sleksa gives decent opinions when on other hand majority of people here just talks noobish nonsense.

However it wouldn't hurt if he was a little less offensive in how he gave his opinions.

EDIT: nevermind the second part, someone already replied.

Hellspawn · Post by **Hellspawn** » 16 Oct 2007, 20:15

Skid wrote:
Hellspawn wrote:Actually Sleksa gives decent opinions when on other hand majority of people here just talks noobish nonsense.
However it wouldn't hurt if he was a little less offensive in how he gave his opinions.

Truth, Sleksa tends to be direct.... thats well Sleksa...

Neddie · Post by **Neddie** » 16 Oct 2007, 20:16

Actually, Sleksa's on the verge of breaking policy with how he presents his opinions.

Sleksa · Post by **Sleksa** » 16 Oct 2007, 20:31

arent i always?

Day · Post by **Day** » 16 Oct 2007, 20:34

Yes and that's why i married you.

Neddie · Post by **Neddie** » 16 Oct 2007, 21:05

Yes, and Day, you're sweet.

Sleksa · Post by **Sleksa** » 16 Oct 2007, 21:06

Skid wrote: However it wouldn't hurt if he was a little less offensive in how he gave his opinions.

majority of the posts in this thread are as insultive to me as my posts are to you

Neddie · Post by **Neddie** » 16 Oct 2007, 21:07

Insulting, and that is because you can't take dissent.

Spring RTS Engine

Balanced Annihilation V5.8