Balanced Annihilation 5.61 is out! - Page 4

Balanced Annihilation 5.61 is out!

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SwiftSpear
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Post by SwiftSpear » 28 Aug 2007, 20:32

Saktoth wrote:Yeah radars turn on and off randomly, that luarule is naff. We've become used to the 'BLOOP BLOOP BOOP' of radars going on and off all game.

Ive noticed little to no effect from the lab cost change. Its still a huge cost in lump-sum, it still presents most of the same problems of needing a comwreck or otherwise huge economy to afford. I think people need a lot of time to absorb a change like this before they begin to exploit it. The major effect would probably be on greenfields, where teching and every inch of economy matters.

As for shields, they are a wall, not a bubble. Put them between your base and the enemy bertha, and most shots fired at your base will skim off the top of the shield. Dont use them as a bubble and stick them right on top of your adv fusion (Though you can still do this, if you use 2 layered on top of eachother).

The problem with shields is that berthas can actually blow up the shield itself, if they fire directly at it. This is random chance- sometimes it only takes 3-4 shots, sometimes the bertha cant even do enough damage to overcomes the shields HP regen. A nanotower placed well behind the shield set to guard it will help to reduce the likelyhood of this happening.
That's a bug in shield code, not BA balance AFAIK. Basicly, since shields don't push projectiles up, a direct shot into the shield at the right angle can cause the shield to slam the round into the ground right infront of the structure. But:

A. it's extremely unlikely, and difficult to intentionally cause
B. Vulcans are still too inaccurate to be much of a threat in this regard, so vulcans still aren't overpowered vs shields with the new buff.
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el_matarife
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Post by el_matarife » 29 Aug 2007, 00:09

Pendrokar wrote:
Sleksa wrote: (still needing input from t2 lab costs affecting gameplay >_>)
Well t2 airports shouldn't have been changed, cause now I can quickly make a t2 airport and start bombing by building 300 metal(too cheap for t2 bomber) strategic bombers and make one bombing run that is already enough to finish off the game(afterwards players build tough AA)! Other t2 labs are fine!!!
Is it really that quick to rush those? The build time on the T2 bombers is pretty long, they've got a longer build time on each one than the factory that builds them. Are you using large amounts of nano towers or assisting build units?
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hunterw
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Post by hunterw » 29 Aug 2007, 00:27

you guys gotta think about the shields in terms of vectors.

we all know that when a bertha ball enters a shield, it has an acceleration applied to it. the direction of the acceleration is the vector from the center of the shield to the ball.

if the bertha ball happens to be aimed perfectly at the shield generator, the acceleration applied to it is the exact opposite direction of the velocity of it. that means for the shield to reflect it, the plasma ball would have to completely come to a stop and then fly out the direction it came, and plasma shields don't give that much acceleration, nor should they.

bertha balls don't have to be aimed perfectly to penetrate, however. there's a relatively large zone for which a plasma ball can get inside. also worthy of note is altitude...if a bertha is on a hill and the shield it's firing at is much lower, the ball has a much better chance of penetrating the outer portion of the sphere, as the acceleration is more lateral than vertical on those portions, and if the ball has a lot of downward velocity, it's not going to stop.
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BlackLiger
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Post by BlackLiger » 29 Aug 2007, 04:03

hunterw wrote:you guys gotta think about the shields in terms of vectors.

we all know that when a bertha ball enters a shield, it has an acceleration applied to it. the direction of the acceleration is the vector from the center of the shield to the ball.

if the bertha ball happens to be aimed perfectly at the shield generator, the acceleration applied to it is the exact opposite direction of the velocity of it. that means for the shield to reflect it, the plasma ball would have to completely come to a stop and then fly out the direction it came, and plasma shields don't give that much acceleration, nor should they.

bertha balls don't have to be aimed perfectly to penetrate, however. there's a relatively large zone for which a plasma ball can get inside. also worthy of note is altitude...if a bertha is on a hill and the shield it's firing at is much lower, the ball has a much better chance of penetrating the outer portion of the sphere, as the acceleration is more lateral than vertical on those portions, and if the ball has a lot of downward velocity, it's not going to stop.
Which is semi realistic. The sheild is a deflector. It can only put so much counter into the shot before it fails.
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hunterw
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Post by hunterw » 29 Aug 2007, 06:39

hunterw wrote:plasma shields don't give that much acceleration, nor should they.
i disagree with swift though, it is easy to intentionally do though if you can get a spy giving LOS to the shield for the bertha to aim at 8)
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Sleksa
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Post by Sleksa » 29 Aug 2007, 07:14

well you can always put a small wall of t2 wall inside the plasma shield, so the shots either get repelled away or they hit the wall instead of the shield generator ~_~
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SwiftSpear
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Post by SwiftSpear » 29 Aug 2007, 23:29

hunterw wrote:
hunterw wrote:plasma shields don't give that much acceleration, nor should they.
i disagree with swift though, it is easy to intentionally do though if you can get a spy giving LOS to the shield for the bertha to aim at 8)
It's easy to do some damage to the shield gen... it's hard to acctually hit the gen body for the necessary 1-2 shot kill that will outpace a healing nanobackup.
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Pressure Line
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Post by Pressure Line » 30 Aug 2007, 01:42

hunterw wrote:bertha balls
lulz
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jackalope
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Post by jackalope » 30 Aug 2007, 07:52

Increased Ground damage of Avengers and Freedomfighters

lol I might have to start playing again
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Sleksa
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Post by Sleksa » 30 Aug 2007, 07:55

but they no longer get through 20 sams to kill my comm ;)
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Ishach
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Post by Ishach » 30 Aug 2007, 10:07

jackalope wrote:
Increased Ground damage of Avengers and Freedomfighters

lol I might have to start playing again
Its a sick joke, they do more damage to everythign except coms
;_;
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Dragon45
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Post by Dragon45 » 31 Aug 2007, 01:07

noes

whar is mah commassasinations :(
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REVENGE
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Post by REVENGE » 02 Sep 2007, 21:30

Hmm, consider giving the seaplane bombers waterbombs?
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Neddie
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Post by Neddie » 02 Sep 2007, 21:32

Well, the have Seaplane Bombers - and Seaplane Torpedo Bombers.
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REVENGE
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Post by REVENGE » 02 Sep 2007, 22:08

neddiedrow wrote:Well, the have Seaplane Bombers - and Seaplane Torpedo Bombers.
Yeah, I think it'd be interesting and more useful to just eliminate both and put out a waterbomb dropping seaplane. Those are more useful than torp bombers anyways.
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Saktoth
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Post by Saktoth » 02 Sep 2007, 23:38

I assume by this you mean that due to KDRS patches (Which are only SVN), we can create 'sinking bombs' that hit the ocean floor?

An alright idea (The seaplane bomber is afterall almost identical to the strat bomber) but torpedoes are still incredibly useful for their accuracy. Not having a torp bomber in the SEAplane lab would be sorta o_O.
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hunterw
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Post by hunterw » 02 Sep 2007, 23:40

torpedo bombers do have a disadvantage cause you need an unbroken stretch of water a non-trivial distance away from whatever underwater target you're after. on maps with lots of islands and whatnot they drop torps on land a lot.

of course the main usage of torp bombers is to clear out whatever 5 or 6 leftover underwater mex there is at the very end of a team game so the unit really doesnt show up in many games at all until they're already won. they dont rly need a change, barring maybe some LUA that makes them fly only from a direction for which the torpedo will not just blow up on a beach.

also saktoth check pm
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REVENGE
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Post by REVENGE » 03 Sep 2007, 01:16

Saktoth wrote:I assume by this you mean that due to KDRS patches (Which are only SVN), we can create 'sinking bombs' that hit the ocean floor?

An alright idea (The seaplane bomber is afterall almost identical to the strat bomber) but torpedoes are still incredibly useful for their accuracy. Not having a torp bomber in the SEAplane lab would be sorta o_O.
I didn't even realize we needed a patch to make this work, I just checked the units buildable by the Arm platform on unituniverse, and there is a waterbomber.

Main advantages are that they work near land edges and they can damage clusters of ships+subs at the same time.
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Saktoth
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Post by Saktoth » 03 Sep 2007, 05:31

Patch is needed, yeah. If something hits the water or not is hard coded. You could possibly fudge it with a torpedo with no speed or tracking but you'd have a hard time getting it to work.
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TechnoTone
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Post by TechnoTone » 03 Sep 2007, 10:13

neddiedrow wrote:Labs seem fine. Radar, however, are glitching. I'll have full E when constructing them and they'll switch off for some reason, though this error cannot be consistently reproduced.
I believe this is because of the following line in Licho's unit_estall_disable.lua gadget:

Code: Select all

          elseif (energyUse < energyUpkeep) then -- there is not enough energy to keep unit running (its energy use auto dropped to 0), we will disable it 
Due to this line, when the unit is switched on (either when it is first created or when being re-enabled) its energy use is temporarily lower than its usual energy UpKeep.

The comment states that the energy use has dropped to zero but in fact it only has to drop below the units UpKeep value.

The script needs to ignore any warnings when a unit is powering up.
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