Dev meeting minutes 2010-10-17

Dev meeting minutes 2010-10-17

Minutes of the meetings between Spring developers are archived here.
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jK
Spring Developer
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Joined: 28 Jun 2007, 07:30

Dev meeting minutes 2010-10-17

Post by jK » 19 Oct 2010, 00:35

Date: 2010-10-17
Present: abma, hoijui, jK, Kloot, Tobi



_Agenda_____________________________________________________________________
  • Welcome
  • Mailing list
  • Release plan
  • communication enhancement with mod-devs
  • lua state split (EXPORT and Script.XXX)
  • what to do with userdocs?
  • Alternative meeting date/time


_Main Conclusions___________________________________________________________
  • We got a Mailing List now, if external orgs want to contact us (the spring devs).
  • Tobi will do the Q&A forum asap.
  • We test a new meeting time for next week.




_The meeting________________________________________________________________
Tobi: brb
<< Tobi left!
>> Tobi joined!
Tobi: hm
Tobi: hoijui said earlier today that he probably couldn't attend
Tobi: I wonder where the rest is gone
>> abma joined!
abma: hey!
Tobi: hello
abma: zerver is in etherpad...
abma: hoijui too, hmm :-)
>> hoijui joined!
hoijui: hey!
hoijui: aww..
hoijui: kloot and zerver have not been here?
Tobi: hey
Tobi: no
>> Kloot joined!
abma: hi Kloot! :)
Kloot: hai
Kloot: had to compile 82.6 first
hoijui: hey :-)
hoijui: i also just got here
hoijui: should we start now?
Kloot: hmm sure

Welcome
hoijui: guess thats already done...

Mailing list
hoijui: se the etherpad for more info
hoijui: see*
hoijui: Tobi, you did this?
Tobi: about that, does one of us have a SF account and is not (yet) in the springrts project?
Tobi: yeah
abma: me! :)
Tobi: Neddie wanted a spring contact address for c't, and I thought it may be good to have a public contact e-mail anyway
Tobi: as also with that book thing it was pretty obvious they didn't have a clue how to contact engine people :-)
jK: me has a SF account, too
Tobi: I need one of you to test something, looking for the url I need for that
Tobi: and after that I can add you both I suppose ;-)
abma: ok :)
Tobi: as non-springrts member, can you see this page: https://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/for ... ngrts-team
Tobi: there should be 2 test e-mails visible
abma: no...
Tobi: ah good :)
abma: i get an "Permission Denied
abma: Access to this page is restricted (either to project members or to project administrators) and you do not meet the requirements to access this page. Please contact the administrator of this project for further assistance. "
abma: and i'm logged in
Tobi: great
Tobi: that is how it is intended
Tobi: as it's supposed to be a list private to spring devs (only for external orgs wanting to contact us), so it shouldn't have public archive
hoijui: ah good :-)
hoijui: so this is really just for... official stuff, right?
hoijui: not for users contacting devs, for bugs or whatever
Tobi: correct
hoijui: good :-)
hoijui: anything left to do there?
Tobi: if that appears to not work we can make the list moderated and reject all mails that don't fall in the proper category
hoijui: mm ok :-)
Tobi: need to put it somewhere on the web page I guess
hoijui: where would you put that address?
hoijui: mm
Tobi: I'll see if I can look at that
Tobi: abma: added you to springrts project
Tobi: last but not least if you want to receive such external e-mails please subscribe to the mailing list
Tobi: otherwise I guess you could still hear second hand about it in the meeting or so
Tobi: that's it
Tobi: ah, the link where you can subscribe is in the etherpad
hoijui: next then?
hoijui: (i subscribed)
Tobi: yeah
Kloot: same

Release plan
hoijui: yeah.. just...
hoijui: anything pending thta woudl require a new 0.82 soon?
hoijui: some reported massive performance problems
hoijui: maybe if we find out what is cuasign it, can can/have to fix it..
hoijui: but other then that, i guess it is ok
Tobi: did I understand properly that it was only between 0.82.5 and 0.82.6 that this started to happen?
jK: those perfromance issues sound ati related
jK: esp. because Licho has a pretty fast cpu >3GHz
hoijui: yes Tobi
hoijui: mm
Tobi: right
hoijui: yeah ... that coudl well be, as Wombats screenshot shows practically no CPU usage in all out profilers
hoijui: ok.. will see what it is wiht more feedback

communication enhancement with mod-devs
Tobi: shall we just try that out?
hoijui: just setup.. soemthing, wiht thelittle we havE?
hoijui: :D
Tobi: q&a forum with the example q we have now
hoijui: +1
Tobi: I found a nice piece of software too that may be nicer than phpbb but I doubt we have the resources to install that
Tobi: (f/oss stackoverflow.com clone)
hoijui: mm
hoijui: have you tried to run it?
hoijui: i mean.. is the problem that this stuff (like etherpad) is just written so heavy, or .. why would it use so much resources?
Tobi: I mean human resources :P
hoijui: ahaa :D
hoijui: ok
Tobi: though server resources might be troublesome too
Tobi: IIRC it was a Ruby On Rails app, and at least I don't have any experience yet hosting that
hoijui: maybe one of the mod devs could run it?
Tobi: side problem is that I can't even find it anymore <_<
hoijui: :D
hoijui: so.. just use the forum?
Tobi: yeah
Tobi: would need to look too whether such clones are actually healthy projects
Tobi: and not some hackjob that will be unmaintained 3 months from now
hoijui: mmm
Tobi: so we use forum, at least for now
Tobi: should I just make it asap?
Tobi: do we have some rules for it written already?
Kloot: just these: etherpad.springrts.com/NON_PUBLIC
abma: Tobi: http://gitorious.org/shapado
Tobi: abma_irc: thanks, thats indeed the one I had seen
abma: you pasted it into etherpad... :-)
Tobi: a lol, nice to know you saved something somewhere and then completely forget where :-)
Tobi: that one is active
Tobi: ah and this an example ofc: http://shapado.com/
Tobi: but would still have problem of hosting&maintaining it somewhere + it would not be really integrated into site (as now site == forum, efectively), so harder to get people there etc.
Tobi: what do others think?
Tobi: seems to me forum is most pragmatic solution atm :-)
hoijui: yeah :-)
Kloot: couldn't you hack phpbb so people could attach scores to other people's posts? :P
Tobi: then I rather read some howtos on hosting rails apps ;-) (I've seen phpbb code before :P)
Kloot: heh
abma: i think phpbb should be ok, as we moderate it
Tobi: ok
hoijui: moderate heavily in the beginning
hoijui: to not allow bad or even just slightly bad questions
abma: and it doesn't requires an additional login + software...
Tobi: then I do that and make all devs moderator on it
Tobi: if a question isn't appropriate just lock & put a post why it isn't appropriate
Tobi: I'll try to put some rules + the bad examples in a sticky or so
hoijui: ook :-) thanks :-)
hoijui: next?
Tobi: if question thread goes off-topic, how do we moderate that?
Tobi: can't really lock if q itself was good
hoijui: hmmm :/
hoijui: just be hars on the posts
Kloot: split if the offtopic part is not nonsense (and relates to dev), else just /dev/null them
hoijui: as soon as it is offtopic.. moderate
Tobi: yeah that seems ok
Tobi: ok, then next

lua state split (EXPORT and Script.XXX)
Tobi: nothing about this?
hoijui: lets skip that, as zerver is not here
hoijui: its his topic

what to do with userdocs?
Tobi: ok
hoijui: last time, jk was not here :D
Tobi: http://github.com/spring/spring/tree/ma ... /userdocs/ they are really outdated: i (abma) suggest to remove them and only add an link to http://springrts.com/wiki/Read_Me_First (maybe with an local html-page, too)
Tobi: (thats what abma put in agenda)
abma: yeah, what to do with that files? they are really outdated
abma: :)
Tobi: I agree with what you suggest
Tobi: maybe the README.something could be installed
Tobi: (maybe it is already?)
Tobi: that already contains a link to the wiki I think
abma: do you mean http://github.com/spring/spring/blob/ma ... E.markdown ?
abma: or a "new" file?
hoijui: that one
abma: in the windows installer currently the readme from the spring-lobby is placed in the root-dir
abma: ok
hoijui: should it maybe also contian the new list email address?
Tobi: ah, yeah
Tobi: maybe we can make html from it and install it as README.html
Tobi: and install SL README as README-SpringLobby preferably
hoijui: yeahh.. good
abma: yep, fine :)
hoijui: will you handle all that, abma?
Tobi: for converting markdown to html you can use pandoc http://johnmacfarlane.net/pandoc/
hoijui: its installed on the buildbot?
hoijui: ah you mean.. "statically" convert it in the repo?
Tobi: either way, I don't really mind how we do it
abma: yep
abma: maybe there is a python/perl/... script to convert it
abma: i'll look for it
Tobi: haskell not good enough? :)
hoijui: thanks :-)

Alternative meeting date/time
hoijui: what did you imagine, Tobi?
hoijui: a week-day?
Tobi: uh, was still thinking about that, maybe on monday evening or saturday afternoon
hoijui: i would preffer monday evening from these two
hoijui: every weekday would be fine
Tobi: but if it is really hard to find a good common new date (I bet it is) we can stick with this one, then I might just not be present sometimes when it's nice wheather and I am active enough to go outside :-)
hoijui: :D
hoijui: yeah.. ditto
hoijui: not for the weather but the rest
hoijui: Kloot, abma, jK?
abma: monday is ok
Kloot: weather is less likely to be good on monday evenings than sunday afternoons so +1 from me
jK: it is okay for me too
Tobi: ok then that was actually pretty easy
abma: what time?
Tobi: so starting next meeting we do monday evening, say, 21:00 ?
Tobi: I don't care really much about time as long as we finish before 01:00 or so and I've had time to eat after work/study :-)
hoijui: :D
hoijui: i think i would do it earlier, but 21:00 is ok too
jK: we can test 21:00
abma: yep, let's try :)
Tobi: ok
Tobi: thanks
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Neddie
Community Lead
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Joined: 10 Apr 2006, 05:05

Re: Dev meeting minutes 2010-10-17

Post by Neddie » 19 Oct 2010, 00:40

If you inform me when the Q & A mod-dev forum is up I'll prioritize moderation activity there on my end.
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FLOZi
MC: Legacy & Spring 1944 Developer
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Joined: 29 Apr 2005, 01:14

Re: Dev meeting minutes 2010-10-17

Post by FLOZi » 19 Oct 2010, 00:59

I'm not sure how useful a rigid Question - Answer format will be, but I guess we'll see.
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aegis
Posts: 2456
Joined: 11 Jul 2007, 17:47

Re: Dev meeting minutes 2010-10-17

Post by aegis » 19 Oct 2010, 08:19

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Tobi
Spring Developer
Posts: 4598
Joined: 01 Jun 2005, 11:36

Re: Dev meeting minutes 2010-10-17

Post by Tobi » 21 Oct 2010, 11:35

http://answers.springlobby.info/

Thanks to koshi :P

I suggest we try that, now the hurdle of installing such a thing has been taken, and in the majority of the cases no extra account should be necessary, as it uses OpenID.
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Argh
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Re: Dev meeting minutes 2010-10-17

Post by Argh » 21 Oct 2010, 13:18

In terms of performance, I'm not sure it's that simple. Beherith saw about the same total FPS in that profile test we did.

Something strange is definitely going on with SMF/SSMF (that is probably fixable), where we have great FPS until X Units are on the screen / in-game.

Maybe it's eating up a heck of a lot of texture bandwidth atm? I am running out of theories that explain the strange results, unfortunately, and I would like to see it fixed even if I quit using it. I probably need to go test whether PBO on/off makes a difference- I'm guessing no.

On that topic, can we have access to PBO via Lua, please? I've been wanting to use it for ages, to squeeze more speed out of both unitRendering and POPS.
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Tobi
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Re: Dev meeting minutes 2010-10-17

Post by Tobi » 21 Oct 2010, 14:37

Wrong thread?
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Argh
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Re: Dev meeting minutes 2010-10-17

Post by Argh » 21 Oct 2010, 16:08

hoijui: yeah.. just...
hoijui: anything pending thta woudl require a new 0.82 soon?
hoijui: some reported massive performance problems
hoijui: maybe if we find out what is cuasign it, can can/have to fix it..
hoijui: but other then that, i guess it is ok
Tobi: did I understand properly that it was only between 0.82.5 and 0.82.6 that this started to happen?
jK: those perfromance issues sound ati related
jK: esp. because Licho has a pretty fast cpu >3GHz
hoijui: yes Tobi
hoijui: mm
Tobi: right
hoijui: yeah ... that coudl well be, as Wombats screenshot shows practically no CPU usage in all out profilers
hoijui: ok.. will see what it is wiht more feedback
I think it's all related atm.
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quantum
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Re: Dev meeting minutes 2010-10-17

Post by quantum » 21 Oct 2010, 19:53

On answers.springlobby.info, preformatted text blocks format text for you :P

edit: code blocks require 4 spaces of indentation, thx Tobi
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