Discord My Content - Page 3

Discord My Content

For the discussion of infrastructure improvements and changes.

Moderator: Moderators

gajop
Moderator
Posts: 3020
Joined: 05 Aug 2009, 20:42

Re: Discord My Content

Post by gajop » 03 Jul 2017, 08:24

That ^

On a similar note, I was given easy access to already publicly-available game replays, which contain chat data that I plan to analyze.
I don't think there is or should be any assumption of privacy in this case.

I'm pretty sure spring replays (http://replays.springrts.com/) also gives public access to replays (which contains chat data), and I think most people are fine with that.
2 x

dansan
Server Owner & Developer
Posts: 1190
Joined: 29 May 2010, 23:40

Re: Discord My Content

Post by dansan » 03 Jul 2017, 08:49

Forboding Angel wrote:
dansan wrote:I don't want my conversations to be archived by anyone else, than those I have them with.
Melbot has been active for like 10 years. #sy and #moddev have been publicly accessibly by a single click to anyone on the internet for a decade at least. This site used to even link to a 1 click #sy irc joiner thing (maybe it still does via one of the subdomains?).
Is Melbot the IRC-bridge or something else?

If it is: a network interface [that requires registration] (IRC) is not a public website that gets indexed, archived and analyzed by 100s of web crawlers. So it has nothing to do with this discussion.
Forboding Angel wrote:Doesn't IRC keep history? Additionally, the relay bot would store a copy as well.
IRC servers may or may not (they should not!) keep a copy of conversations. Even if they do, that doesn't mean that they publicize it.

My concern is not about if there are records, but about what happens with them.
Forboding Angel wrote:It's safer to understand that whatever you are doing on the internet, if it isn't an SSL connection. It's public (and even with SSL that could be a bit dubious).
Just because something can technically be intercepted doesn't mean it's public!
0 x

dansan
Server Owner & Developer
Posts: 1190
Joined: 29 May 2010, 23:40

Re: Discord My Content

Post by dansan » 03 Jul 2017, 09:10

gajop wrote:That ^

On a similar note, I was given easy access to already publicly-available game replays, which contain chat data that I plan to analyze.
I don't think there is or should be any assumption of privacy in this case.

I'm pretty sure spring replays (http://replays.springrts.com/) also gives public access to replays (which contains chat data), and I think most people are fine with that.
Thanks for this good example:
  • Players get notified that the replay has been uploaded to a website.
  • A system is in place that protects their skill data by default, but they can publicize it if they wish so.
  • The chat data does get extracted, but does not get published (not even stored in the DB), because the author of the site chose not to. I hope you won't do it, because I think there is a big difference between showing a summary of a match and a chat protocol. Just think of sanity of the BADSD8v8 community :D
So while there is a non-HTML-archive with chat protocols and the possibility to publicize it in a web crawler friendly way - it simply isn't done.
(Same for SLDB.)
0 x

User avatar
Forboding Angel
Evolution RTS Developer
Posts: 14564
Joined: 17 Nov 2005, 02:43

Re: Discord My Content

Post by Forboding Angel » 03 Jul 2017, 09:26

dansan wrote:(IRC) is not a public website that gets indexed, archived and analyzed by 100s of web crawlers
Neither is discord? You have to have an invite to even join the discord server, even if it's public. But you know what is public and indexed by 100s of web crawlers? http://replays.springrts.com/

I'm starting to think you don't really know how discord actually works.

Why on earth do you have some sort of impression that discord chat gets indexed by web crawlers?
0 x

dansan
Server Owner & Developer
Posts: 1190
Joined: 29 May 2010, 23:40

Re: Discord My Content

Post by dansan » 03 Jul 2017, 11:50

Forboding Angel wrote:
dansan wrote:(IRC) is not a public website that gets indexed, archived and analyzed by 100s of web crawlers
Neither is discord? You have to have an invite to even join the discord server, even if it's public. But you know what is public and indexed by 100s of web crawlers? http://replays.springrts.com/
Did you read my last post?
Forboding Angel wrote:I'm starting to think you don't really know how discord actually works.

Why on earth do you have some sort of impression that discord chat gets indexed by web crawlers?
Yes - I do have an account ^.^

But I must admit - I was simply expecting it to be indexed. I tried around a while with google and realized that it's not :oops:. I guess my concerns are appeased - sorry to have made wrong assumptions.

I still think it's good style to announce an automatic message relay somewhere public like in #main. Transparency is important for trust.
Maybe the bot could write there something like "The following channels are mirrored to http://discord...: #sy, #...", like once an hour.
0 x

User avatar
Forboding Angel
Evolution RTS Developer
Posts: 14564
Joined: 17 Nov 2005, 02:43

Re: Discord My Content

Post by Forboding Angel » 03 Jul 2017, 12:28

dansan wrote: But I must admit - I was simply expecting it to be indexed. I tried around a while with google and realized that it's not :oops:. I guess my concerns are appeased - sorry to have made wrong assumptions.
No worries, but this quote encapsulates the entire problem which is people essentially inventing boogiemen where there are none for the express purpose of simply stirring up trouble. Then someone such as yourself comes along who innocently sees a potential real issue based upon those invented boogiemen and the snowball turns into an avalanche.

Discord is a far better medium for conversation than the lobby, so I don't really see a downside to announcement spam lol :mrgreen:
0 x

abma
Spring Developer
Posts: 3536
Joined: 01 Jun 2009, 00:08

Re: Discord My Content

Post by abma » 03 Jul 2017, 12:34

you miss a very important point: replays.springrts.com is under our control. On discord we have zero control over our data. We have only the control discord grants to us.
1 x

gajop
Moderator
Posts: 3020
Joined: 05 Aug 2009, 20:42

Re: Discord My Content

Post by gajop » 03 Jul 2017, 12:34

I don't really see a downside to announcement spam lol
I really hope you guys are joking. Spam is unacceptable.
I'd rather just kill the bridge altogether.
0 x

sprunk
Posts: 83
Joined: 29 Jun 2015, 07:36

Re: Discord My Content

Post by sprunk » 03 Jul 2017, 12:37

Automated spam is horrible, yes. Change the welcome message (topic) for relayed channels instead.
0 x

dansan
Server Owner & Developer
Posts: 1190
Joined: 29 May 2010, 23:40

Re: Discord My Content

Post by dansan » 03 Jul 2017, 14:07

announcement spam
Which will be relayed :twisted:
0 x

User avatar
PicassoCT
Journeywar Developer & Mapper
Posts: 10182
Joined: 24 Jan 2006, 21:12

Re: Discord My Content

Post by PicassoCT » 03 Jul 2017, 16:18

We could create a relay ring, accelerating the spam to near light speed
0 x

User avatar
Forboding Angel
Evolution RTS Developer
Posts: 14564
Joined: 17 Nov 2005, 02:43

Re: Discord My Content

Post by Forboding Angel » 03 Jul 2017, 18:25

abma wrote:you miss a very important point: replays.springrts.com is under our control. On discord we have zero control over our data. We have only the control discord grants to us.
<HiPocasso> akku?
<HiPocasso> hi alcur
<HiPocasso> i feel plus oned
<Alcur> You or someone named like you said akku
<HiPocasso> i say a lot of things
<Alcur> [18:25] toPic[asso]: everytime my usb-tethered cellphone wants to remind me that its akku is fully loaded it spawns a headline and warning- and kills my internet
<HiPocasso> ah yes
<HiPocasso> that is indeed a pain in the ass...
<Alcur> What is an akku?
<HiPocasso> german for rechargable battery - akkumulator
<Alcur> Oh
<Alcur> We say akku too in Finland
<HiPocasso> I make the same sound - but with a lot of NNNN before
<HiPocasso> i guess we copyied it then
<Alcur> Akku is also the car battery in Finland
<HiPocasso> they are in charge
<HiPocasso> gn8
<Alcur> gn
Such precious information.

Sarcasm aside, discord does make searching through the messages very simple. How many times has JK responded cryptically in chat logs that we'll never find again?

Image

Speaking of logs, every chat client connected to the server is logging every channel that it touches. You don't control those logs either and if this bothers you, so should that.
0 x

User avatar
PicassoCT
Journeywar Developer & Mapper
Posts: 10182
Joined: 24 Jan 2006, 21:12

Re: Discord My Content

Post by PicassoCT » 03 Jul 2017, 19:54

Well at least it has entertainment value.. Unlike forbs rants in hope of somebody coding it for him.

Well all in favour of "meh" half assed raise your hands so forb can wander off to chase the next glittery pig through the village.
0 x

dansan
Server Owner & Developer
Posts: 1190
Joined: 29 May 2010, 23:40

Re: Discord My Content

Post by dansan » 03 Jul 2017, 23:44

Forboding Angel wrote:Speaking of logs, every chat client connected to the server is logging every channel that it touches. You don't control those logs either and if this bothers you, so should that.
Nobody has a problem with logs by players participating in a channel. Strawman alert.
Please stop ranting here, you are not advancing the discussion.
0 x

hokomoko
Spring Developer
Posts: 572
Joined: 02 Jun 2014, 00:46

Re: Discord My Content

Post by hokomoko » 04 Jul 2017, 00:14

Bloody hell guys, a page ago it seemed like people were getting into agreement and now everything escalated again.
Why do I even bother?
0 x

User avatar
Forboding Angel
Evolution RTS Developer
Posts: 14564
Joined: 17 Nov 2005, 02:43

Re: Discord My Content

Post by Forboding Angel » 04 Jul 2017, 00:42

dansan wrote:
Forboding Angel wrote:Speaking of logs, every chat client connected to the server is logging every channel that it touches. You don't control those logs either and if this bothers you, so should that.
Nobody has a problem with logs by players participating in a channel. Strawman alert.
Please stop ranting here, you are not advancing the discussion.
Is it really a player? It could be a bot collecting channel logs. Worse yet, it could be a bot on irc doing the same thing and you don't even see it in the lobby.

It's as much of a straw man as the one that was built up over discord in the beginning of the thread. I'm simply poking holes in the entire argument, because the original claim was out and out stupid. As stupid as a logging bot in the lobby or IRC would be.

In the future, less alarmism, more productivity.
0 x

sprunk
Posts: 83
Joined: 29 Jun 2015, 07:36

Re: Discord My Content

Post by sprunk » 04 Jul 2017, 11:41

Image
4 x

User avatar
PicassoCT
Journeywar Developer & Mapper
Posts: 10182
Joined: 24 Jan 2006, 21:12

Re: Discord My Content

Post by PicassoCT » 04 Jul 2017, 14:18

Sometimes if you look up on the northern hemisphere, of the nightsky- you can see moddev- and if you have very good eyes- you can even be movvended.
0 x

User avatar
nixtux
TechA Developer
Posts: 100
Joined: 01 Mar 2009, 15:36

Re: Discord My Content

Post by nixtux » 08 Sep 2017, 16:38

So discord finally answered my questions I had about the legal stance on content rights, So I thought I would post the reply here just so everyone knows
Generally speaking, Discord has rights to the content posted to it by users that have agreed to the terms of service to the extent that the terms give us such rights. As part of those terms, we require that users of the service (including bot-makers, for example) agree that they're not violating anyone else's intellectual property rights with regards to the content that they post. Users who have their copyrighted content posted in a manner that is unauthorized may file a DMCA against the content, and we will respond to such DMCAs as required by law.

It's our position that we think that bot owners should be open and straightforward about what their bot does, and if there is a bridge, that the channel operators on the IRC side should know and approve it
Many thanks nixtux
3 x

User avatar
PicassoCT
Journeywar Developer & Mapper
Posts: 10182
Joined: 24 Jan 2006, 21:12

Re: Discord My Content

Post by PicassoCT » 08 Sep 2017, 22:23

Automated dmca bot will end the discordant irc channels then
0 x

Post Reply

Return to “Infrastructure Development”