Re: Standalone Featureplacer
Posted: 18 Jan 2013, 03:26
I just tested out feature placer, and it works really well, clean and simple. I really like these in game tools for editing maps, it makes so much sense.
Open Source Realtime Strategy Game Engine
https://springrts.com/phpbb/
I just did a tiny change to how features pics are obtained in Toolbox and it seems to work using Spring Features from svn as a dependency. I suggest you do this in featureplacer as well, as it properly separates responsibilities.Forboding Angel wrote: Unitpics cannot be read properly from a dependency apparently. I know this because all the feature pictures are in spring features, but spring won't read them from spring features.
Well I guess it would work by just putting it in as a dependency - and not sure I want to make it mandatory right now (I think ToolBox one could replace this eventually).Forboding Angel wrote: Make them coexist gajop?
PD has less restrictions than GPL. You can always license stuff under less restricting ones, but GPL is minimum (so LGPL isn't sufficient).gajop wrote:can you really licence lua code under PD? i thought it's all forced to be GPL by the engine?
please start a licensing discussion elsewhere.gajop wrote:can you really licence lua code under PD? i thought it's all forced to be GPL by the engine?
is 100% correct.jK wrote:PD has less restrictions than GPL. You can always license stuff under less restricting ones, but GPL is minimum (so LGPL isn't sufficient).gajop wrote:can you really licence lua code under PD? i thought it's all forced to be GPL by the engine?
thats only because it was part of evo(and gundam) and previously the only way to get it was to get gundamrts or evo.. since yo were the only vocal person around, it ended up being "get evo and use featureplacer" kind of understandable that it gets attributed to you.. however incorrectForboding Angel wrote:The irritating thing is that some people think that I wrote it and I get tired of correcting them, but whatever.
There are a few issues with rand rot etc. Not a big deal I need to move them off of units and just make a ui to plop on click but right now I just have other things which feel like they are higher priority.Forboding Angel wrote:Smoth, in this one everything works. I know you totally redid it, but in the meantime, till that is ready, this will do the trick.
Feature placer is meant to be PD so people can do what they want with it. I only gpl'd stuff that the authors already gpl'd. I do not control it because I cannot. People will do what they want here, a license is only as good as your will/motivation to enforce it and unlike a few ex-members of this community, I am not a blowhard. I acknowledge my lack of will to do much about what happens with featureplacer. If someone breaks the standards set by it, I will just rename the config file I use and ignore them. What if the standards are better? well I will adopt them. I should not stand in the way of the thing being better than it is. I should also not stand in the way of it being used.Forboding Angel wrote:Not sure what you mean about controlling it, in the sense that anyone could take it and do whatever they please with it, but at the same time, it's nice to have a(n) (at least semi) standard tool for feature placement that mappers can rely on.
the reason I setup feature placer in EVO was not for evo to keep it as a map tool. It was so evo could add evo specific features, corpses and feature placement. I later included only the gundam feature map in desert valley as BA players typically have shit pcs and need all the fps they can get. don't ask me why but largey they all act like BA should be as graphical as a bargin-bin game from 2000 because they want to run it on pcs from around 7 years ago.Forboding Angel wrote:FP in evo is temperamental , so making fp it's own module was a net gain for me as well. The irritating thing is that some people think that I wrote it and I get tired of correcting them, but whatever.
Yeah I get that, and tbh it was just nice having it there at my beck and call.smoth wrote:the reason I setup feature placer in EVO was not for evo to keep it as a map tool. It was so evo could add evo specific features, corpses and feature placement. I later included only the gundam feature map in desert valley as BA players typically have shit pcs and need all the fps they can get. don't ask me why but largey they all act like BA should be as graphical as a bargin-bin game from 2000 because they want to run it on pcs from around 7 years ago.Forboding Angel wrote:FP in evo is temperamental , so making fp it's own module was a net gain for me as well. The irritating thing is that some people think that I wrote it and I get tired of correcting them, but whatever.
oh no no no, I wouldnt dream of it.smoth wrote:feel free to but don't be upset if I don't do them.
I'm going to guess you want to select all features the map? Can you elaborate them in some more detail? Or do you want to select feature types which you will be adding to the map?enetheru wrote: * selection tools, paint selection, loop select, type select, select random etc.
Is the intent of this to replace all features of one type with all features of the other type? Or just do a replace of all features (of any type) in one area to another type?enetheru wrote: * replace all
You basically want this just for multiple objects?enetheru wrote: * rotate multiple selected objects around median centre
I think 0ad has something similar in its' editor, but you basically want to click on the feature tool and choose a brush, and you want to "draw around the map" and have it create features only in certain, limited amounts? That is, it won't create features if there's already enough of them in that area, and might even remove some so the area holds the amount that the brush tool is configured to create?enetheru wrote: * paint tools, with options limiting proximity to existing features
I'd like to do 3D rendering of ingame features, I'm just not sure how to do it yet, as I've no idea how to draw features properly, DrawFeature isn't enough. They need to be drawn with textures (maybe even some lightning or w/e?) or they look really weird. Any hints there?enetheru wrote: - multiple view types like list, icon or preview(3d view, with something to show scale like the units footprint)
I'm pretty sure you can't add/remove FeatureDefs and UnitDefs tables while in-game, but you may be able to load some of it in some early stages of the mod. Can anyone confirm when/where this is doable?enetheru wrote: * modular feature archive loading, so that not all features need to be in the one huge archive.
Makes some sense but I feel there's a high chance (at least currently) that people will be using the same feature in multiple maps, which may lead to larger maps on average and probably larger total map size in general. It's something to look at, but not yet imo.enetheru wrote: * bundle tool, to extract the feature from the archive and include it in your map archive(cutting dependency)
ok lets elaborate there are two things that come to mind from your response.gajop wrote:i'm slightly curious about some of these use cases, may want to implement it in toolbox, so could you give it some more detail?I'm going to guess you want to select all features the map? Can you elaborate them in some more detail? Or do you want to select feature types which you will be adding to the map?enetheru wrote: * selection tools, paint selection, loop select, type select, select random etc.
you would work it based on selection, so you replace the currently selected features with the new one.. if you select everything you replace everything.. could also work with the above idea of selecting multiple features from the build menugajop wrote:Is the intent of this to replace all features of one type with all features of the other type? Or just do a replace of all features (of any type) in one area to another type?enetheru wrote: * replace all
yepgajop wrote:You basically want this just for multiple objects?enetheru wrote: * rotate multiple selected objects around median centre
thats better than what i was thinking so yeahgajop wrote:I think 0ad has something similar in its' editor, but you basically want to click on the feature tool and choose a brush, and you want to "draw around the map" and have it create features only in certain, limited amounts? That is, it won't create features if there's already enough of them in that area, and might even remove some so the area holds the amount that the brush tool is configured to create?enetheru wrote: * paint tools, with options limiting proximity to existing features
yeah definitely larger maps..but if we have loads and loads of features in multiple modules dependency hell starts to exist.. what about multiple versions of certain feature archives?gajop wrote:Makes some sense but I feel there's a high chance (at least currently) that people will be using the same feature in multiple maps, which may lead to larger maps on average and probably larger total map size in general. It's something to look at, but not yet imo.enetheru wrote: * bundle tool, to extract the feature from the archive and include it in your map archive(cutting dependency)
No it doesn't. There is only one spring features and it is on rapid, meaning incremental updates in subsequent versions. All of the lobbies auto download dependencies now, so this is a non-issue, and bundling with the map increases fragmentation and map size.enetheru wrote:yeah definitely larger maps..but if we have loads and loads of features in multiple modules dependency hell starts to exist.. what about multiple versions of certain feature archives?gajop wrote:Makes some sense but I feel there's a high chance (at least currently) that people will be using the same feature in multiple maps, which may lead to larger maps on average and probably larger total map size in general. It's something to look at, but not yet imo.enetheru wrote: * bundle tool, to extract the feature from the archive and include it in your map archive(cutting dependency)
It's a trade off that I would make to avoid that situation.
I have no comment on your other points.
PS: In ToolBox, I want to unify feature and unit selection, and to allow people to select (move, rotate, copy, paste and stuff) units and features at the same time, i.e to remove the difference users see between units and features.enetheru wrote: first my original idea is just selection tools for features that are on the map already
* rectangular area first thing to implement, won't be too hard probably
* lasso or free select, draw an area and everything inside is selected can be done, just don't care much about it atm
* randomise selection optional
- has paremeter of %, randomly selects % of features.
* select by type, selects the same types of units already selected could be done much like it's done for units, i.e you get a list of selected features, and their numbers, and by clicking on their icons (shift/ctrl) you can select a specific type or types
Understood the prefab part (can also call it a template or sth). Shouldn't be too hard to do.enetheru wrote: you would work it based on selection, so you replace the currently selected features with the new one.. if you select everything you replace everything.. could also work with the above idea of selecting multiple features from the build menu
Btw, I already implemented most of the stuff you mentioned at least twice so far, once in a C++ 2D allegro based map editor 10 years ago, and once in a 2D Swig java editor 4~ years ago. So I think I have a good idea on how to do it (and how hard it is), but feature requests are always welcomed as it gives me an idea of what to prioritize!enetheru wrote: hmm also made me think of pre-fab or build groups.. dont know how to call it.. add features, select them and save as a pre-fab.. you can then add that set of features anywhere else on the map with a click of a button.
I think it would be better if we could download features/feature packs from a certain repository, based on map/mod dependency, and only do that if it's not already downloaded (much like rapid works).
One could also do neat (advanced) things like either specify a feature version or commit to using the newest feature version in case it ever gets updated (f.e "tree1:newest", "tree1:v132").
That requires a bit too much work atm though.gajop wrote: yeah definitely larger maps..but if we have loads and loads of features in multiple modules dependency hell starts to exist.. what about multiple versions of certain feature archives?
It's a trade off that I would make to avoid that situation.
I tend to think worst case scenario, offline play, servers crash, community dies and cannot get things anymore, or so much extra data that spring features explodes in size, hundreds of dependencies from multiple modules.Forboding Angel wrote:No it doesn't. There is only one spring features and it is on rapid, meaning incremental updates in subsequent versions. All of the lobbies auto download dependencies now, so this is a non-issue, and bundling with the map increases fragmentation and map size.