NOTA 1.82 - Page 5

NOTA 1.82

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Fanger
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Post by Fanger »

You dont need that, you can use OnlyTargetCategory1=SHIPS; where ships can be water or whatever you want as long as all the ships have that catagory, and that tag is in the coastal gun..

Why should this be done, well because any other way you set it up is probably going to make it either useless in its intended role, or possibly overpowered when used on land, this allows you to simply tweak it vs ships without having to worry about it being used on land as much, having to force fire it all the time not as useful..

If you need some fluff to justify this that just imagine that the gun itself has difficulty tracking ground targets due to their size, and the systems are designed to track and target ships and so unless specifically told to fire it has trouble automatically firing at land targets..

you dont have to make this harder than you have to, and you dont need to hamstring yourself because of pointless fluff no one will care about..

so Until you can justify why the AAA wouldnt shoot at ground, I dont see why its an issue to have a gun that only shoots at ships..
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MadRat
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Post by MadRat »

But as was pointed out, sometimes the hovers should be treated like ships.
j5mello
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Post by j5mello »

so give the big hover transports teh SHIP category and huzzah it will shot at em. And the validity of shooting those hovers and not others is the size of the unit. if you really wanted you could make a LRGUNIT category and give it to all the targets u want the thing to hit...
manored
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Post by manored »

How about making the anti-ship guns unable to turn more of 90 deegres? (so they cant shot at land if they were pointed to sea)
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Strategia
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Post by Strategia »

manored wrote:How about making the anti-ship guns unable to turn more of 90 deegres? (so they cant shot at land if they were pointed to sea)
Meet Mr. NTN (New To NOTA).
Mr. NTN knows that ships are a major factor in NOTA combat.
Therefore, Mr. NTN decides to build a battery of coastal guns to hold off hostile navies.
"All turrets can turn 360 degrees," thinks Mr. NTN, "therefore it matters not which way they face."
Mr. NTN builds an impressive coastal defence battery.
Facing landwards.
Some time later, one destroyer takes apart the entirety of Mr. NTNs coastal battery by itself, and hover transports swarm onto the coastline.
<Quit: Mr. NTN>
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MadRat
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Post by MadRat »

j5mello wrote:so give the big hover transports teh SHIP category and huzzah it will shot at em. And the validity of shooting those hovers and not others is the size of the unit. if you really wanted you could make a LRGUNIT category and give it to all the targets u want the thing to hit...
The toairweapon and waterweapon tags are already a kludge, why not use another kludge to fix them.
manored
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Post by manored »

Strategia wrote:
manored wrote:How about making the anti-ship guns unable to turn more of 90 deegres? (so they cant shot at land if they were pointed to sea)
Meet Mr. NTN (New To NOTA).
Mr. NTN knows that ships are a major factor in NOTA combat.
Therefore, Mr. NTN decides to build a battery of coastal guns to hold off hostile navies.
"All turrets can turn 360 degrees," thinks Mr. NTN, "therefore it matters not which way they face."
Mr. NTN builds an impressive coastal defence battery.
Facing landwards.
Some time later, one destroyer takes apart the entirety of Mr. NTNs coastal battery by itself, and hover transports swarm onto the coastline.
<Quit: Mr. NTN>
Thats his punishment for not reading tutorials! :P
localhosed
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NOTA AI

Post by localhosed »

With spring 0.74b3, I haven't been able to get any AI's working with NOTA 1.11.

Does anyone know any AI's that work with NOTA 1.11?

I thought i remember reading that NTAI might support it. I tried using NTAIXE9.5 RC2 development version, but spring won't run with it, the global AI version is incorrect. Maybe NTAI could be an option with another version of spring (i'm guessing older). Has anyone tried this and made a configuration for NOTA also?

The latest version of AAI bundled with spring 0.74b3 crashes when i try to use it with NOTA. I setup a cfg for it and tried replacing the START_UNITS defaults with armbase and corbase, but it didn't stop the crashing. I noticed that NOTA seems to have 2 extra sides, x_arm and x_core for some purpose. Maybe this confuses AAI, i don't know at all.
Edit : According to the latest aai post, it doesnt support EEmod hubs yet, so I guess NOTA would not be supported either.

QAI loads but doesn't build anything. I think QAI is supposed to support more or less universal mod support and might have some EE support (uses hubs), but maybe NOTA is the exception for now.

RAI 0.40 doesn't yet support mods that use hubs, says the 0.40 post.

If i recall, KAI builds some things, some of the time, but doesn't seem to make armies. I think that it maybe confused about what the purpose of the hub is. I just don't know enough about KAI to know.
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Thor
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Post by Thor »

As far as I know, there are no AI's that work with NOTA. Smartie was trying to set up a configuration for NTAI a while ago, but couldn't get it to work. I think the source of the problem is that while in EE you have a commander who builds your first hub, in NOTA your commander is your hub so the AI gets confused when it tries to move or it tries to build on top of itself but can't since it can't move.
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AF
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Post by AF »

NTai progress is being made, keep checking the newer NTai dev builds to see if there're any improvements with smarties toolkit config.
localhosed
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Post by localhosed »

Thank you thor and AF.

I wasn't able to find anything released by smartie on unknown files, and he didn't seem to post about his work on the ntai toolkit, but I think it doesn't matter quite so much since it doesn't work yet.

But for my last question since it's a little off NOTA topic, does anyone know what version of Spring I need to use the latest NTAI dev builds? Spring says that the globalai DLL is an incorrect version after it doesn't run.
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Strategia
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Post by Strategia »

manored wrote:Thats his punishment for not reading tutorials! :P
What if someone in the lobby invites him to a game of NOTA and gives him no hints and/or tips?
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Thor
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Post by Thor »

NOTA version 1.2 is out! Get it here: http://spring.unknown-files.net/file/2546/NOTA_v1.2/

Changelog:
----v1.2

-Added seaplanes. They are faster and lighter than normal planes, ideal for hit and run attacks. They can be repaired and refueled at special underwater support stations built by the construction sub.
-Heavy tank balance reworked to prevent late game spamming. They are now more vulnerable to aircraft and anti-armor weapons like rockets, gauss cannons, and high energy lasers.
-Level 2 Vehicle Rocket Launchers now fire long range ballistic missiles similar to those on missile ships. These units are somewhat similar to mobile anti-ship guns in terms of size, cost, and other stats, but have greater range and near-perfect accuracy, making them perfect for picking apart enemy defenses. Like ship missiles, they can be jammed by radar jammers and electronic warfare ships.
-Units with heavy armor (includes heavy tanks, cans, sumos, crabes, etc.) are more resistant to lighter weapons, as well as high-area-of-effect, low damage weapons such as light artillery and plasma cannons.
-Most Kbots are substantially more cost-effective. Changes include:
-infantry kbot HP increased by 15%
-rocket kbot damage slightly increased
-thud/hammer dps increased by 20%
-anti-air kbot cost decreased
-Sonar ranges on most units including subs, destroyers, and airborne sonar have been decreased.
-Attack subs now have the ability to passively detect moving ships outside of their sonar range.
-Stealth fighter flare efficiency, reload time improved; they now have a 60% chance of dodging any incoming missiles.
-Arm Spider and Drone now built at the Kbot factory
-Flash given significent firepower increase, especially against light units.
-Moho mines cost less metal, but more energy.
-Metal extractor hitpoints reduced; strategic bombers can now destroy them in one pass.
-Plasma weapons do increased damage to light units and buildings.
-Hellfish cost increased by 15%
-Flying Wing laser damage increased by 20%
-Brawler accuracy, damage to light units increased
-Gunship hitpoints reduced by about 12%
-antinuke effectiveness reduced; launching 3 nukes simultaneously is now enough to get one through.
-Core Black Hydra Battleship damage slightly increased, cost slightly decreased.
-Panther cost decreased by 5%, buildtime decreased greatly (it was much higher than it should have been)
-hovertanks no longer lose accuracy when moving
-air scout radar range reduced
-bladewing cost slightly reduced
-Seahook heavy lifter added for Core level 2 transport
-new unit icons for certain defenses like lrpc's and doomsday machines/annihilators
-planes now land directly on airpads, rather than in the air above them
-various small visual fixes
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Fanger
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Post by Fanger »

I see no fixing of shore batteries.. WHY!
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Thor
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Post by Thor »

I looked again at their effectiveness against land units and it just isn't a problem. Their accuracy and hitpoints are bad enough that they are nowhere near being cost-effective, and you are always better off building a regular plasma cannon on a land map. If someone wants to build one, that's their choice, but they are wasting their money.
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smartie
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Post by smartie »

It's probably also worth mentioning that plasma cannons are more effective in the new version too. Thor didn't mention it in the changelog, but the AOE is slightly larger than it used to be, plus they do extra damage to light units. If there's balance issues to worry about in this version it's going to be the scud launchers. They outrange the coastal defense guns.
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Scikar
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Post by Scikar »

So what are the plans for this? I've been playing with my brother and really enjoying it. The games take a while, as in it's 20 minutes before anyone can really attack in force, though he's pretty new so I'm going easy on him. I love the changes to air and ships, and I really like the idea of a tough base but you can't just build strong turrets anywhere. Planes with machineguns was a brilliant idea!

That said, I think a reasonably cheap nanotower for factory assisting would be cool. I tend to build more than one factory but even then the rate of production in the later stages of a game is a bit slow. The mod doesn't seem to be against assisting since I can build a big bunch of construction units to do it without a problem, but I'd rather have towers to do it. That, or increase the workertime of the factories a bit. Maybe something like in EE where they build reasonably fast but you can't assist them very well. I don't like hordes of construction units swarming factories, but if my opponent is doing it then I'm obliged to do the same.
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Thor
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Post by Thor »

I'm glad you like it! we're mostly done with 1.21, I think, which fixes some mostly minor balance issues left over after all the changes in 1.2. For example, rocket kbots, which weren't worth building 90% of the time in 1.2, are now actually a good defense against tank rushes, and construction subs now take longer reclaiming wreckages and repairing ships. It also adds two late game units: a stealth bomber for the Core, which is much bigger than a regular strategic bomber and several times the cost. They are perfect on large maps for unexpectedly attacking those fusions and mohos behind or away from enemy flak defenses, while a normal bombing raid would have been seen and intercepted far ahead of your targets. We're also adding commanders as a late game superweapon. He is stronger and more deadly than the commander in OTA or AA, but the commander's greatest strength is not his combat ability, but his incredible build ability. He can build anywhere on the map those defenses that are normally restricted to bases, including LRPC's, and with incredible speed. Bring a jammer along and you can quickly set up a firebase right under the enemy's nose.

After 1.21, we plan to continue adding new units, mostly to fill support roles, at a slow but hopefully steady rate. While both 1.2 and 1.1 had some pretty major changes in overall gameplay, balance, and the roles of certain units, from now on most changes will probably be restricted to relatively minor stat tweaking where needed. I'm also planning to write a unit guide and perhaps other helpful stuff to make it easier for new players to get into the mod.

To be honest I'm surprised you feel that factories build slow; I've always thought they were quite fast, certainly compared to factories in ota. Increasing factory workertime would have the downside of using more than your economy can handle in the earlier parts of the game. Usually, in the games I play at least, I simply can't afford to have more than a few workers assisting a factory, but that could be because most of the games I play are 1vs1's that usually don't last to the point where I have a huge enough economy to do so.
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Scikar
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Post by Scikar »

Part of it is probably poor map choice on my part, but I do find fighters in particular to build quite slowly (bombers don't seem so bad though). Kbot and vehicle labs probably aren't so bad. I do often find myself struggling to spend my metal though by about mid game once I've claimed most of the mexes I can, even with my factories all building at once. I've not really played seriously yet against my brother since he's still learning, so I end up building a base constructor next to each factory by the time I'm fully into T2 (probably not a great idea in a proper game, but I'm usually overflowing with metal by this point).
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Thor
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Post by Thor »

NOTA 1.21 released! http://spring.unknown-files.net/file/2705/NOTA_1.21/

------------ CHANGELOG ---------------------

------v1.21
-Added "Talwar" Amphibious Assault Transport for Core
-Added "Black Lily" Stealth Bomber for Core
-Added Commanders. They are a powerful late game unit that can build defenses anywhere.
-Added "Osprey" Heavy Interceptor for Core.
-Added level 1 mini radar jammers. Their primary purpose is to jam guided ballistic missiles. Regular jammers moved
back to level 2.
-Added Core truck ground transport/mobile airpad. Built at the advanced vehicle plant.
-New weapon effects for many of the weapons, including plasma weapons, napalm, and nukes.
-Core Dominator Rocket Kbot changed back to a normal artillery role (instead of having guided ballistic missiles).
-Plasma battery cost reduced by 10%
-Rocket kbot firepower increased by 10%
-Hammer/Thud Artillery kbot firepower increased by 10%
-Construction sub repair/reclaim speed reduced
-Seaplane platforms now built on ocean floor
-new unit icons added

This release ended up having more to it than expected. New weapon effects, and lots of new units added, the most interesting of which is probably the Core assault transport. It is fast and affordable, and has a rocket launcher and sam for self-defense and fire support, and two airpads for refueling of friendly aircraft.
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