NOTA 1.82

[nightcold]

i have trouble setting up the new version

what i dl file it saves the game as a zip.....i changed it to a sdz(by changeing name)....spring dose not recongize it....what do i d....

[Godde]

Thanks for the replays of the spacebugs. It's very difficult to balance it so that killing burrows is worth your while without making it possible to dominate against the bugs at times. I'm not a fan of autobalancing mechanisms that make is so the difficulty is about the same each game no matter how well you play. But maybe the bugs do need to improve their defenses somehow if they start losing a lot of burrows.

It's nice to be awarded for being successful and keeping your units alive and pushing out on the map as the most fun games I've had against bugs are when fight to stay alive, have to micro your front lines to avoid losses and need to get more metal income. Now "fun" is subjective and I guess that there are alot of players that likes to porc up and see wave after wave melt away against their coastal/HLT wall.

[Thor]

i have trouble setting up the new version

what i dl file it saves the game as a zip.....i changed it to a sdz(by changeing name)....spring dose not recongize it....what do i d....

it should be an sdz. Where are you dling it from?

Bugs/Issues:
I got huge lag around 40 minutes. It weren't that many units around then and the unit limit was set to 500 so you might wanna check what caused the lag. Maybe bugs reaching the unit limit caused the lag.
There were also some lua errors.

The lua errors are just because of the 500 unit cap. As for the lag, there was a large clump of bugs that got stuck on top of each other due to spring's pathfinding. It happend at the same time as when the lag happened, so I bet that's what caused it.

We're thinking maybe giving bugs some spitters earlier might help them be better able to fight pyros. Also, when the queen comes, the bugs are supposed to only have half the size of a normal wave, but I'm not sure if that's working. It seems like a full sized wave to me. With fewer bug spam to deal with it would be more possible to have a more interesting queen fight where you have to kill burrows or cut off its line of retreat.

[nightcold]

@thor

spring files.....

is there like other options???

[Thor]

You could try rapid also. Springfiles works for me though.

[nightcold]

You could try rapid also. Springfiles works for me though.

well for some reason i'am not able 2 set up rapid...and zk can not install on my comp ever since the name change(and all the fancy stuff they added)....

something is up.....

don't know where the problem is, might be sl....actrually this has happened before...i had to skip a version of nota (it would always save as zip not sd7)...i have tried renameing to sd7....sl will sill not recongize it after being placed in mod folder....

this is the message that is say evertime i double click.....
"the proces can not acess file becasue it is being used by another process"

can u try reuploading.....

[smartie]

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=MP5P3BIL

i put it up on megaupload

[nightcold]

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=MP5P3BIL

i put it up on megaupload

.......omfg, IT WORKED!!!!!

thx so much smartie


also, can we get an option 2 also play old bugs....i could never get into the new....

[Thor]

Basically, that's not going to happen. It would be kind of confusing to say the least to have 2 different bug modes and , tho the new bugs isn't perfect, there were some fundamental problems with the old spacebugs, like weird errors all the time, queen tripping and dying, highly exploitable AI, etc. Honestly I think the old spacebugs also didn't do new players any favors by teaching them all the wrong things about how to play nota, whereas the new version at least encourages a healthier gameplay style that involves using mobile armies and taking territory and gives the player many more possible options, rather than just porcing.

If you want more of the old spacebugs feel with fewer of the new "boss" bugs that are so good against porc, you could try playing on easier difficulty but adding an extra bot or 2 to make the burrows spawn faster so it's still challenging.

[nightcold]

well i tried nukeing a worm the other day in bug mode....and it it lived

it was alot of trouble to get that nuke up....i was hopeing that it would have oneshot-ed worms....

[Thor]

It should kill in one hit, nuke does 10000 damage, worm only has 4000 hitpoints.

[Godde]

Zeus unit icon is the same as rockos and hammers. They got about the same speed so its hard know from icon view what units they are. It is even more crucial to see the difference beetween Zeus because you don't wanna go close to them while you definatly wanna get close to thuds. If they get the same icons as peewees it could work as its easy to separate slow moving units from fast moving units.

[law[nota]]

had a thought about aircraft carriers... would be really cool if they were infact mobile adv sea plane labs, that allowed for fast production of aircraft and increased heal/refuel rate over regular pads. that way they would perhaps be a bit more useful than they currently are. and on larger maps you could see more diversification in strategy, ie, it opens up the tech choices after cruiser: 'do i go BC/MC/AC???'

on a more general note, i really think core sea needs a bit of rebalancing, arm just rapes it with heavy destroyers and a cruiser than plain rapes core.

[nightcold]

a few thoughts....

what good is the core light vec.....i cant see any role that it can fill personaly...flash tank is excellent for small scale confrontation with kbots.....all med tanks are good for mass kbot confrontation and vec dominance....core light tank is actually bad vs kbots, it also dose bad vs vecs...cant think of a use for it

also, zeus is still not all that usefull from what i have seen....maybe also add a bit of a stun ability and lower cost???

maybe seaplanes should move into water durring combat to avoid shots....and maybe move forward inwater for surprize attacks????

[Thor]

I don't think Core sea is so terrible anymore. At least it's more balanced than it was in 1.64, although I agree that arm has the advantage, mainly because of the crusader. Being able to build airplanes on carriers might be cool.

I think instigator's good for fighting peewee spam. Stun ability on zeus is a fun idea.

I agree seaplanes are kind of boring and not all that useful. There's not any way to make them behave like you suggest unfortunately. It would be cool if they had a more interesting role that took advantage of their submersibility.

[Thor]

I'm thinking of lowering hitpoints on most ground attack planes and bombers and decreasing damage or area of effect on hellfish bombs. I don't think air is as fragile as it should be for how very deadly it is. As it is now even with a large amount of AA all attacking planes will deal their damage and a good portion will survive. What do you guys think?

[nightcold]

I'm thinking of lowering hitpoints on most ground attack planes and bombers and decreasing damage or area of effect on hellfish bombs. I don't think air is as fragile as it should be for how very deadly it is. As it is now even with a large amount of AA all attacking planes will deal their damage and a good portion will survive. What do you guys think?

this reminds me of the game where godde massed hellfish and fighers and just totally raped us(me and thor vs godde and other guy).......
I dont think it is the hellfish that is unbalanced, but godde(we clearly need to nurf him)...the hellfish is rarly used let alone used affectively

i just dont want nota air to be rlly weak like in ba.....and it is not like air is super effective as it is right now, it is hardy worth the investment half the time in smaller games(imo)

imo it is air defences that need to be bosted a bit...missile tower is useless/not used as it is right now...give misssel tower much more range(more than flank) and dmg...make flank cheaper...mg is fine as it is

[Thor]

Hellfish have been seeing a lot more use lately as people have caught on to how good they are.

I agree about not making air too weak. In ba and other mods without fuel I think air generally needs to be that weak to be balanced since they essentially work the same as ground forces but with more mobility, whereas in nota even if they're op you'll still need ground forces for their staying power. I disagree about air not being effective right now, even on small maps like valles marineis going air is a necessity, and by its nature air scales much better in bigger maps, in team games, and also in porcier maps. The reason I'm leaning towards reducing hitpoints is it allows aircraft to remain as deadly as ever, but requires a bit more discretion in where that power is applied.

I think air defenses are balanced in relation to each other, except for stationary flak which I think is not much use except if you're caught off guard by a flying fortress and don't have time to build enough fighters. A well placed missile tower can be really useful in my experience.

[Godde]

even on small maps like valles marineis going air is a necessity

Valles marineis got good wind and several geothermals near the starting position so getting the infrastructure to support making lots of air is easy compared to comet catcher for example.

[Thor]

good point. It's true that it does take a long time to get air on comet catcher, but that's the other extreme with no easy energy, loads of metal and no choke points or hills to make taking ground more expensive.