The Cursed 0.131 - public beta - Page 8

The Cursed 0.131 - public beta

Azaremoth's epic game about bones, undead, demons and magic set in a futuristic environment.

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CarRepairer
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Re: The Cursed 0.131 - public beta

Post by CarRepairer » 22 Oct 2009, 16:46

bartvbl wrote:If you change the state of that basic building unit from the pyramid, and try to build something, you get a crash.

Infolog: http://www.pastebin.org/47059
To restate: go into summoner stance, try to build something. Instant crash.
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azaremoth
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Re: The Cursed 0.131 - public beta

Post by azaremoth » 23 Oct 2009, 14:38

smoth wrote:is this back from when I reviewed your race on the tau forums?
Yeah - It is - It was the best screenshot I could find online. Nice review btw. :-)
Saktoth wrote: [...]
Thanks for all that valuable infos man! There is a lot of stuff I can dig through now. The summoner stances will work better with the next version. I have replaced the gadget with CA`s morph script functions.

Any suggestions how to calm down the skeletal mages. I want to keep the teleport ability for that unit. Will longer cool down periods and slightly higher costs do the trick?
bartvbl wrote:If you change the state of that basic building unit from the pyramid, and try to build something, you get a crash.
That should work with the next version. :wink:


edit:
Saktoth wrote:I got a weird bug with the dragon where he stopped firing. FPS'ing him showed that his reload time was minus several million %. I suspect you're setting it in the script somewhere? Is this something to disable units when you've no energy? Or is it something to do with the slow attack (i was attacking it with witches).
Some weapons consum lots of energy when firing (like the dragon's breath and the witch's meteor storm). Without a proper energy production your units will stop reloading/shooting. It is not caused by the slow-down attack. There is no way to disable units in order to save energy though. That would be against the energy-as-upkeep concept I guess.
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CarRepairer
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Re: The Cursed 0.131 - public beta

Post by CarRepairer » 23 Oct 2009, 17:03

azaremoth wrote:The summoner stances will work better with the next version.
It's not the stance itself, it's the action of summoning a unit, probably something to do with the script or effect when the "factory" begins building.
azaremoth wrote:Any suggestions how to calm down the skeletal mages. I want to keep the teleport ability for that unit. Will longer cool down periods and slightly higher costs do the trick?
I haven't thought about this too much, but it feels like skeleton mage having both teleport and burrow is kind of overlapping abilities. Both can be used to surprise the enemy and escape danger. To me it feels a bit like a waste in such a situation when instead a non-burrowing unit could have it instead. But what are your reasons for giving him that one?
azaremoth wrote:Without a proper energy production your units will stop reloading/shooting.
Shooting, yes. But reloading? I don't recall this to be part of spring.
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azaremoth
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Re: The Cursed 0.131 - public beta

Post by azaremoth » 23 Oct 2009, 17:51

CarRepairer wrote:It's not the stance itself, it's the action of summoning a unit, probably something to do with the script or effect when the "factory" begins building.
Hmm... I couldn't reproduce this yet. A look at the script and the effects can't hurt though.
CarRepairer wrote:I haven't thought about this too much, but it feels like skeleton mage having both teleport and burrow is kind of overlapping abilities. Both can be used to surprise the enemy and escape danger. To me it feels a bit like a waste in such a situation when instead a non-burrowing unit could have it instead. But what are your reasons for giving him that one?
It was rather a question of the unit design - a "teleport spell" did fit good for a "skeletal mage". It could be moved to another unit.
CarRepairer wrote:
azaremoth wrote:Without a proper energy production your units will stop reloading/shooting.
Shooting, yes. But reloading? I don't recall this to be part of spring.
I was confusing things there - it might very well be the gadget.
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Saktoth
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Re: The Cursed 0.131 - public beta

Post by Saktoth » 24 Oct 2009, 10:17

The problem with the mage is just speed and range. You cannot catch it. Its low DPS and inaccuracy means that it cant win a straight up fight, but this doesnt matter if you never hit it. The inaccuracy matters less when massed though, especially with the AoE, and early on they can survive just due to teleport (there isnt even much point building melee skeletons to raid, though a punch-through obelisk assassination may be viable).

Something needs to outrange or outpace it. If you wanted to create something like the SC2 stalker: That is a medium range unit, like the gunner. Most other ranged units outrange it. The teleport is also not as far, most melee units can close range on it before it can teleport again. Not so with skeleton mages.

The mage does require constant micro to be effective, but i gotta say i love it, the way you can draw a line and they will just teleport into the formation you set them in, its both satisfying and and very devastating.

So what would i suggest? Reduce the range, swap the range with it and the gunner, or make the bonebeast hit mobiles. A structure of skeletal mage > skeletal warrior > skeletal gunner > skeletal mage would work well.

Or, skeletal mage > skeletal warrior > bonebeast > sketal gunner > skeletal mage. Mage kites warrior outpaces bonebeast AoE's/outranges gunner outranges mage. Warrior vs gunner and bonebeast vs mage should be about even.

Add the witch into the mix there for a 5-way counter structure of some description.

Also, air factory is useless for anything other than scouting early on, which is a shame, since the floating radar is just way cheaper. I suppose it can snipe enemy radar though, but not worth the cost.

I've no idea what the t2 game is like though, its never lasted that long. Usually if you ever hit t2 you just want to spam a fast strong unit to end it, probably the bomber.
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Re: The Cursed 0.131 - public beta

Post by wilbefast » 24 Oct 2009, 20:56

:mrgreen: Wow! This is a really cool game: Doom + TA = Dream come true (honestly, who never wanted to play as the daemons?)

Couple of bugs I've picked up, I know the first one has been reported before but I'll reiterate:
- building units while in summoning stance causes an instant crash (segmentation fault).
- It's possible to get free skeletons by ordering them to burrow as soon as their construction begins.

There's going to be a second race isn't there? Can't wait :-)

Keep up the good work,

William


edit: is there a short-cut to get the "metal overlay"? Normally I prank a metal-extractor but necromancers can't build them, and they're the only thing you can really expand with...

edit 2: My UI (screenshot) doesn't look like your UI:
Image

Very strange...
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Re: The Cursed 0.131 - public beta

Post by zwzsg » 25 Oct 2009, 01:20

F4?
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wilbefast
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Re: The Cursed 0.131 - public beta

Post by wilbefast » 25 Oct 2009, 09:45

zwzsg wrote:F4?
Yeah :? hum... just found the manual :oops:
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azaremoth
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Re: The Cursed 0.131 - public beta

Post by azaremoth » 29 Oct 2009, 23:22

Here is a bug-fixed release of The Cursed. It should run without major problemes with the recent spring version. Moreover there was a lot of stuff done for the GUI by CarRepairer. LUPS should not crash anymore on computers that don't support it. Check it out!

Changes 0.131 => 0.14
- optimization of melee and collision spheres
- enhancements to the GUI (chiligui)
- fixes to the GUI
- fixed LUPS
- tier2 is much cheaper now
- gunships (sledgehammer) can now be build with the lvl1 airpad
- other balancing

Download here:
http://www.springfiles.com/show_file.php?id=2140

I won't be able to be online for the next two weeks - thus don't expect quick answers.
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wilbefast
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Re: The Cursed 0.131 - public beta

Post by wilbefast » 30 Oct 2009, 08:10

Sweet :mrgreen:

The burrow problem has been fixed, as has the seg fault when using summoning stance. I did notice that the necromancer jumps slightly to the top right when entering it though...

I really like the nice new GUI :-)

Keep up the good work!
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CarRepairer
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Re: The Cursed 0.131 - public beta

Post by CarRepairer » 30 Oct 2009, 16:04

Thanks. Since he's gone for a couple of weeks I'll take care of any little bugs people find. I'll start by checking out the summoning stance "jump" you speak of.
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Saktoth
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Re: The Cursed 0.131 - public beta

Post by Saktoth » 30 Oct 2009, 23:17

Mages nerfed?
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Re: The Cursed 0.131 - public beta

Post by wilbefast » 30 Oct 2009, 23:30

I noticed they couldn't burrow, but then they can teleport....
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smoth
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Re: The Cursed 0.131 - public beta

Post by smoth » 08 Nov 2009, 16:46

I must say azare you are doing a great job, just tried 14.

I do wish that there was a cheap spam-able unit. I like cheap weak units for screeners.
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Re: The Cursed 0.131 - public beta

Post by wilbefast » 08 Nov 2009, 18:03

I just accidentally picked a water map to play the Cursed, and couldn't do a lot. My mistake but it makes me think: it would be cool if the Cursed was "compatible" with maps with bodies of water separating the players: right now you can send planes to attack but you can't to my knowledge expand when there's water in the way.

Some sort of flying transport unit perhaps? Then you could move a necromancer to another island and hey-presto! Water is no longer an impassable boundary. Or maybe necromancers could walk under water (are they dead or alive?)

Just a thought...


William
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azaremoth
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Re: The Cursed 0.131 - public beta

Post by azaremoth » 09 Nov 2009, 19:16

wilbefast wrote:The burrow problem has been fixed, as has the seg fault when using summoning stance. I did notice that the necromancer jumps slightly to the top right when entering it though...
The slight jump is some issue with the morph script as CarRepairer said.
Saktoth wrote:Mages nerfed?
Positive! I changed the range and cooldown-time for the teleport. Moreover I switched the weapon ranges of the gunner and the skeletal mage. I tried to stay close to your suggestions there and hope that the tier 1 balance is much better now. A big change is that tier 2 is far cheaper. You should see all the other units earlier in game now.
wilbefast wrote:I noticed they couldn't burrow, but then they can teleport....
They can burrow - the button appears after the unit is finished to avoid the burrow-while-beeing-built-bug. :wink:
smoth wrote:I must say azare you are doing a great job, just tried 14.

I do wish that there was a cheap spam-able unit. I like cheap weak units for screeners.
Maybe I should male some skeleton wolves/dogs like in the TA:K-Cursed :-)
wilbefast wrote:I just accidentally picked a water map to play the Cursed, and couldn't do a lot. My mistake but it makes me think: it would be cool if the Cursed was "compatible" with maps with bodies of water separating the players: right now you can send planes to attack but you can't to my knowledge expand when there's water in the way.

Some sort of flying transport unit perhaps? Then you could move a necromancer to another island and hey-presto! Water is no longer an impassable boundary. Or maybe necromancers could walk under water (are they dead or alive?)
I thought about water units, too. There is nothing useful in tier 1. There are some hovering units though: the Lich, the Mermeoth and the Rictus. Maybe it would be a good idea to make the skeletons amphibious units (think of pirates of the caribbean :wink: )

Image
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smoth
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Re: The Cursed 0.131 - public beta

Post by smoth » 09 Nov 2009, 19:47

azaremoth wrote:
smoth wrote:I must say azare you are doing a great job, just tried 14.

I do wish that there was a cheap spam-able unit. I like cheap weak units for screeners.
Maybe I should male some skeleton wolves/dogs like in the TA:K-Cursed :-)[/img]
hell dude, I am fine with a little floating torso or head. wolfs would kick ass but teeth do little on metal. Your the brain behind it, I do not want to stifle your creativity.
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Re: The Cursed 0.131 - public beta

Post by manolo_ » 09 Nov 2009, 20:35

awesome work azaremoth
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wilbefast
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Re: The Cursed 0.131 - public beta

Post by wilbefast » 09 Nov 2009, 20:37

:o Welcome back aza!
azaremoth wrote:I thought about water units, too. There is nothing useful in tier 1. There are some hovering units though: the Lich, the Mermeoth and the Rictus. Maybe it would be a good idea to make the skeletons amphibious units (think of pirates of the caribbean :wink: )

Image
Oh, yes, forgot about those... so you can expand and you can attack over water, but only as of tier 2... the only trouble is that you can't deploy cheap units on the mainland until you've built a tier 2 obelisk, then a pyramid, then a necromancer...
So I reckon it would be good to have amphibious skeletons as you say - only the combat ones though as the shooters would short-circuit or something and the mages would... well mages generally don't like getting wet. More practically their attack might look strange underwater.

BTW - I'm not sure if I mentioned this before but your models are just plain badass :mrgreen:

Can't wait to see the second race, how's it coming on?
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Re: The Cursed 0.131 - public beta

Post by Saktoth » 10 Nov 2009, 13:37

Skeletons are very cheap and spammy id say smoth. They cost 95 metal, OTA flash tank is 106 and let it not be said that it isnt spammy. Metal extraction rates are about 45% higher in The Cursed than in OTA, too.

The mage really relied on range and speed to kite everything else, rather than any real firepower or HP. So it will be interesting to see how the nerfs play out. I look forward to playing it again. The cheaper t2 will really open the game right up (and probably add a bunch of new IMBA units to find ;)).
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