Merc Squad 0.3b - Page 3

Merc Squad 0.3b

WolfeGames and projects headed by Argh.

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Hoi
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Re: Merc Squad

Post by Hoi » 31 Dec 2008, 13:10

I really think it needs a way to buy troops midgame, I think it'd be very interesting to have something like flags which you can capture, which earn credits, when you have enough you can order more units, dropships come every minute.

About winning the game, credits should not play a role, but controlling a flag should give you some points, the player who controls all flags wins, and when a player completes the objective the game ends, all points are counted, ect.

So, what do you think?
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Pressure Line
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Re: Merc Squad

Post by Pressure Line » 31 Dec 2008, 13:32

sorta like the game-modes in DoW you mean? (ie: capture and hold 66% of map strategic points for 60 seconds, capture and hold 66% of map critical points [usually only 3 on a map], sudden death [lose even one strat point and its game over])
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Hoi
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Re: Merc Squad

Post by Hoi » 31 Dec 2008, 14:16

Never played that, but yeah, kinna like that.
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Pxtl
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Re: Merc Squad

Post by Pxtl » 31 Dec 2008, 16:27

Image
Image

Also, the mod looks hyper-cool. I was actually considering implementing something similar out of filched Nanoblobs content.

Can't wait to try it, Argh.
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1v0ry_k1ng
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Re: Merc Squad

Post by 1v0ry_k1ng » 31 Dec 2008, 17:39

argh dont be so emo
this is the internet, someone always hates.
jamming your forum on some godforsaken website that nobody can find means it'll be frequented by about three people and nobody will be aware of releases or interest
if someone posts somthing you do not find helpful,
do not justify it with any kind of response

this looks like original content, needs polishing but cool idea
why does the cargo ship have 40000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 hp?
small numbers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> big numbers
for purposes of player feedback
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Spawn_Retard
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Re: Merc Squad

Post by Spawn_Retard » 31 Dec 2008, 18:39

Argh wrote: Also the missions never work, and maps are way to big even on 8v8
What do you mean by "never work"? Doesn't capping the objective give you points?

As for maps, you're entirely correct. It really needs a custom map. I'll get to making one, I guess, won't take very long.
custom formations arnt in the mod.
So, use the Widget...[/quote]


No one plays the mission out, because when i played, all i did was watch for enemy fire, that is effects that i can see outside my LOS e.g. missles, flanked and won the game. people play it as if its death match not an objective game


I dont have the widget because i have a new computer, but it would be nice for you to put it in like BA for instance.

i dont think you should nerf anything, balancing takes more than just taking some damage off.

Unless you make a string of good maps for this mod, i'd suggest you lower range and make LOS alot bigger, so that there is more micro and less stand and shoot
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KDR_11k
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Re: Merc Squad

Post by KDR_11k » 31 Dec 2008, 19:13

1v0ry_k1ng wrote:why does the cargo ship have 40000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 hp?
small numbers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> big numbers
for purposes of player feedback
I think that number is just meant to say "invincible". I tend to give huge HP to invincible things too, never know with Spring what might add damage.
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Gota
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Re: Merc Squad

Post by Gota » 31 Dec 2008, 19:15

Is there a way to stop it spring from showing hp?
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smoth
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Re: Merc Squad

Post by smoth » 31 Dec 2008, 19:36

It might have been better to use an armor class but as argh said it was just something he did for fun. Somethings should probably be left alone as far stats go.

spawn retard, there was a map with walls and shit, I think it was for that mod war evo or com shooter. Would that map work for this?
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Argh
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Re: Merc Squad

Post by Argh » 31 Dec 2008, 20:10

@Pxtl: wait a bit, I'm cleaning up the third alpha, it'll be less crappy, and a smaller download as well.

@Gota: Yes, I could suppress the hitpoints, but why do you think that's a good idea? People like hitpoints. If I take it out, people will complain that they "can't see the numbers", like they always do.

It has very little to do with the actual game- if it wasn't for blowing away cover, I'd have junked the hitpoint system entirely, and just used an internal system. However, it's all there in Spring, so I might as well take advantage of it, because that code runs whether or not I want it to... and in the end, there's always some form of hitpoints, because one-shot-you're-out is never all that fun.

@Spawn_Retard:
No one plays the mission out, because when i played, all i did was watch for enemy fire, that is effects that i can see outside my LOS e.g. missles, flanked and won the game. people play it as if its death match not an objective game
Well, people play CS like that, too, and it's just part of the game.

That said, it's not how this is supposed to work, and I think a lot of it is that people just don't have good options. I'm giving stuff longer sight radii, I've made a (thus far, pretty crappy-looking) map for it, that is mazelike and breaks up LOS a lot, and I'm giving people more tools to manage their people with, and keep them alive (more types of guy, you can buy armor / health potions after your mothership leaves, some of your score becomes money).

I don't want to put spawns, or respawns, into the game, unless I'm going to make the game run until an objective's been reached... which might be the best idea.

Respawns would mean it's not entirely slippery-slope (although people could spawn-camp, which would be hilarious in a RTS that's vaguely emulating a FPS), and money earned can equip guys later on, and you won't be losing automatically by getting flanked once. That aspect of CS works, because it resets the round, but people want a lengthier play in a RTS setting, so it's probably the way to go. I'll do that before I release it.

Lastly... I can't include a GPL Widget in this (I thought KDR wrote that, but he wrote that Gadget, not the same thing). What I should do sometime is to make a PD version. I wish people would quit releasing stuff that's general-purpose useful and is just a player aid under restrictive licenses like that... I can make it available to you, if you can't find it on jobjol, but I can't put it into the game, and I don't have time to write one.
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Sleksa
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Re: Merc Squad

Post by Sleksa » 31 Dec 2008, 22:01

interesting concept.

and +1 to
Respawns would mean it's not entirely slippery-slope (although people could spawn-camp, which would be hilarious in a RTS that's vaguely emulating a FPS), and money earned can equip guys later on, and you won't be losing automatically by getting flanked once. That aspect of CS works, because it resets the round, but people want a lengthier play in a RTS setting, so it's probably the way to go. I'll do that before I release it.
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Argh
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Re: Merc Squad

Post by Argh » 31 Dec 2008, 22:13

Yup, almost done with it. That part was... eh... a bit tricky. Damn tables...
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KDR_11k
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Re: Merc Squad

Post by KDR_11k » 31 Dec 2008, 22:55

World in Conflict avoids spawn camping by letting the player move his start point within his team's starting area between drops.
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Argh
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Re: Merc Squad

Post by Argh » 31 Dec 2008, 23:26

I don't want people to be able to move the spawn. Spawn-camping is a normal part of games like these... and, after having tested a minute... whoever's defending the Objective cannot possibly spawn-camp multiple people and keep people away from the Objective, unless I give them huge amounts of money at the start. And nobody else has a chance, frankly.

And that's a good thing, because it means people need to hunt down that Objective, and avoid getting killed by the other teams on the way in. Once the Objective's been identified... I suspect things will get a bit crazy.

People might even, I dunno... cooperate, or something crazy like that.

Now that the game goes on until somebody achieves the Objective, it's really quite different that way, and it's definitely a better game design.
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zwzsg
Kernel Panic Co-Developer
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Re: Merc Squad

Post by zwzsg » 31 Dec 2008, 23:33

smoth wrote:spawn retard, there was a map with walls and shit, I think it was for that mod war evo or com shooter.
KillahDeathMetal
Argh wrote:@Gota: Yes, I could suppress the hitpoints, but why do you think that's a good idea? People like hitpoints. If I take it out, people will complain that they "can't see the numbers", like they always do.
Just replace the hitpoint figures with "invicible" or something. Though actually I would like it better if you gave the drop plane a reasonable amount of hitpoint and actually killeable (if you rushed stupidly fast or fired at your own units, so in a way that wouldn't happen in regular games but still could be possible).

Otherwise, yes, please, increase the sight, and increase it ALOT!

I'm curious about the drama with Smoth, but mods may not like it if I threw oil on the fire.
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smoth
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Re: Merc Squad

Post by smoth » 31 Dec 2008, 23:48

That is the one! Would that map work for this game guys?



if you want to fuss at me zwz you know I will listen feel free to pm me as the mods want no further drama.
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Gota
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Re: Merc Squad

Post by Gota » 31 Dec 2008, 23:59

The point is...why do i care about the hitpoints of a transport that can't be killed anyway..and giving a flying transport 4 million hp just looks silly.
I mentioned it but it doesn't ruin any part of the game at all..just a small detail that seemed redundant.

Why not allow us to call a transport to any part of the map which is in a certain radius from a certain percentage of your forces and is within los...
i don't see why not...that way u can even use your transport offensively making it drop troops right near a group your in battle with.
I think you should mainly get cash for killing others and reaching objectives can either give you even more cash or give you some special upgrade(in the end the fun part is about killing many enemies while not getting many of your troops killed and objectives are a
"side quest").
I do hope you raised the hp of troops substantially.
You compare it to CS but its a very distant relation as I'm sure your aware of.
CS was about technical ability,FPS skill and working as a team.
Here the skill comes into play when you need to manage all your team to somehow be able to out micro and out maneuver you opponent by moving forces around.
If the HP is not high you wont have time for fun tactical situations where you can out micro and outsmart your opponent.
Increasing unit speed and increasing HP substantially while decreasing weapon speed and making constant movement a way to outdo your opponent seems like a must if the desire is to allow through skill and good play to extend the advantage over others that don't have skill.
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Argh
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Re: Merc Squad

Post by Argh » 01 Jan 2009, 11:05

Version 0.3b is now available. Happy New Year.

7 different guys, an endless respawn system, you can earn money during play, you can plant mines, the buffs are better, you must complete an Objective to finish the round, I reduced the money for the Objective-holder a bit, I cleaned up stupid mistakes in the texts, added a system that lets players see through walls (seismic, iow)...

Basically, I fixed most of the suck. I'm actually thinking it's decent now. There are a couple of things I'd like to have made more perfect, but it's entirely time to move on now.

I made a crummy map specifically for this game, thrown together at the last second, which plays all right but looks really awful.

If somebody feels like making a really decent map that has the same concept (break LOS up, make it feel vaguely urban) that I can (legally) use... that would be awesome.

KAIK plays it just fine, but for whatever strange reason... after working just fine for a bit, AAI no longer plays it. Dunno what that's all about. Doesn't really matter anyhow, people who just play this with AIs are not going to ever really get it anyhow.

Bare-bones package, with map and game can be downloaded here.

Went down in final size, after cutting a lot of junk out. If I ever return to messing with this game design, it'll get bigger again, probably.

ModDB stuff is in progress, and features a complete installer, etc., like for P.U.R.E. RC3... only with Spring 0.77b5, etc.

And yes, it installs to its own folder, if you get it that way, don't whine, it's for people who've never heard of Spring. Which is why the bare-bones is available for you people, and for Linux players.

This will be my last post in this thread. Again, thanks for those of you who posted testing results and relevant game-design stuff, the game's much better for it.

It's probably imba still, but you'll have to talk to me on ModDB, I'm not responding to further comments here, and I won't be reading this thread, it just makes me irritated. That, and I need to get back to World Builder and RC4.
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==Troy==
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Re: Merc Squad

Post by ==Troy== » 01 Jan 2009, 11:56

Interesting design, although copies a lot from Ground Control I (which has been released free to the public recently).

Maybe take some points from it? It had the same dropship + buy gameplay, which was surprisingly balanced and interesting to play.
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Argh
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Re: Merc Squad

Post by Argh » 01 Jan 2009, 12:02

I've never played Ground Control, so I really have no idea whether any of that would be a good idea or not. Nor the WCIII stuff somebody PM'd me about.

But my gut call is that I don't want a mobile spawn system, it'd defeat the purpose of having a system where people are forced to defend a particular place, which is pretty important. At some point or another, people will either gang up on the Objective defender, or suicide-rush him and hope that they can cap before their squad is dead. Or something.

At any rate, this was just a quickie game, and I have no intention of doing anything else with it until P.U.R.E. is done-done.

:roll:

Drat, I actually replied to something here. At least it was relevant.
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