alternate new xta version

[Tim-the-maniac]

Didn't want to post this until I had something ready, but I noticed some threads asking for the changes I have done already..

I've been working on a new XTA version with Deadnight's permission (though he admitted himself there is no real official releaser of XTA versions now)

Non-balance stuff:

-addition of the new BA units (with new lua scripts)
-cleansing the bloated lua-widget list
-removal of ridiculous idle com behaviour (srly who made that? )
-toning down some effects (maybe)


Balance stuff: basically stuff that has already been agreed upon on the forums
-raven damage nerf
-proper cloaking cost for mines
-t1 fighter ground damage nerf (slight)
-ddm range nerf
-sea xD
-more stuff cant remember will update later

Note these are just the areas of re-balance, haven't tested proper numbers yet.
If anyone has any other suggestions post em here.

[ShineSmith]

Ide rather these changes were made to "official" xta tbh. Like you said people have been asking for them on the forum.

As a note to the raven, its dmg isnt so much the main issue, more of its accuracy. Which is, lets face a bloody joke. That wobble tag just trashes it [Wobble=14000;]. Hitting anything is just pot-luck, and something with such randomness has no place in a competitive online game imo.

I experimented with the settings in the xta-speed fork. Faster rockets, much more accurate and 500 not 800 dmg.

-300 dmg seems like allot, but when it actually behaves like a reliable missile volley and hits stuff, a big nerf is necessary. Bear that in mind dude.

GL with what ever you choose to do

[1v0ry_k1ng]

so basically, de-noruasing XTA?

[ShineSmith]

thats so out of order i dont even know where to begin.

ik just stfu

[Deadnight Warrior]

-removal of ridiculous idle com behaviour (srly who made that? )

Ye rang?

-addition of the new BA units (with new lua scripts)
-cleansing the bloated lua-widget list
-toning down some effects (maybe)

Go for it.

-raven damage nerf

It's already too bloody innacurate (doesn't matter if in groups of 5+) and it's reload time is quite long. Nerfing damage is just as saying let's make this unit useless.

-proper cloaking cost for mines

Which should be 0 as mines are dug underground and have no cloaking device. It's just a way it's been implemented in OTA and later in Spring due to engine limitations.
Just face it. IRL mines are also bloody cheap, hard to impossible to find on a battlefield and kill thousands of people every year. Even after UN banned them (not by USA) they are still used and manufactured due to their efficiency and psychological effect.

-t1 fighter ground damage nerf (slight)

Should work with gunship buff.

-ddm range nerf

It's just a metagame thing. When people realise that Guardian/Punisher has 250 more range than DDM they'll make them to counter DDMs.

-sea xD

Agreed.

Also the XTA SVN has the latest WIP of 9.666 that's ment for 0.83 engine. You might want to look at change log to see if you like some of the balance changes I've planned.

[ShineSmith]

DKW:
Nerfing damage is just as saying let's make this unit useless.

NOOOO! nerfing its dmg without changing its accuracy is madness! Let it be more effective by hitting targets. Having 5+ ravens and still hitting anything is STUPID.

It has 6 [burst] missiles at 800 dmg each, that's 4800dmg per volley! That's 4800/18=266 per second dmg. Even the sniper has 2260/14=161 per second dmg.

IT's not the dmg it causes that's the issue. Its the fact it couldn't shoot a duck in a barrel at point blank range that's the bloody problem. IF you increase the accuracy and get rid of the wobble tag, or reduce it substantially, you will HAVE to reduce the dmg.

I remember emails from the SY stating that the raven was introduced just to test out the wobble tag as an addition to the engine, back then. It never had a place in xta as a serious unit. It was a test subject for the engine devs to have a play around with!!! Thats why i changed it so much in xta-speed.

Apologies for the rant, im a little pissed

p.s

It basically IS useless at the moment. Unless you get a lucky shot. And a serious online game should not rely on LUCK but tactical decision's and forethought. I HATE the raven as it is, it's the worse unit in the game as it stands. If there's one unit i want fixed in the next version its the raven. That and an option to turn off t1 scouts and t2 boats with wheels.

[Tim-the-maniac]

Raven accuracy will be increased to compensate yeah.. shoulda mentioned that :D

@Deadnight

Arguing about realism is pretty null in a game where things grow from the ground by spraying green pixie dust, no?

Mines have a purpose to serve, sure, but at the moment they are so cheap you can really slow the game down by spamming vast minefields. They help in producing tedious stalemates. The majority agrees here check some older balance posts.

As for DDMs I do realise that guardian/punisher do outrage, but 1) you shouldn't need to build a slightly longer range turret to kill another turret and 2) you can just keep a necro behind the DDM and forever repair it to keep it alive.
DDM is a very tough and very powerful, it needs to be outraged by some units to keep the game dynamic.

I looked at your balance changes and a lot of them seem very extreme. Units shooting through each other? You realise that is going to mean rebalancing and testing half the units in the game?

@shinesmith

I've been complaining about the random nature of xta for a while. I will try to aim for consistency like jethros/crashers always being blocked by dt and hammers/thuds always shooting over etc.

[smoth]

Slamming one unit at another is a turible way to balance test.

The raven sucks in unit vs unit sure but what about powerfarms hmm?

I don't think they suck at all.

[Tim-the-maniac]

Slamming one unit at another is a turible way to balance test.

The raven sucks in unit vs unit sure but what about powerfarms hmm?

I don't think they suck at all.

Raven vs powerfarm? Well done beating that ai?

Ravens are actually pretty good vs units. They outrage everything and have pretty decent speed so can be kept alive with other units as guards.

[Jools]

Balance stuff: basically stuff that has already been argued upon on the forums

If I had a million dollars for every time someone agrees on these forums, I'd be a very poor man

On a more serious note, it's good that we test different versions, but we should still try to consolidate the number of final releases, otherwise no-one ultimately knows what the label XTA means.

[AF]

If I had a million dollars for every time someone agrees on these forums, I'd be a very poor man

I whole heartedly agree, now where is my cheque?

[1v0ry_k1ng]

units shooting through eachother will lead to all sorts of hilarity.. the missile line shalt become the missile ball!

@Raven, you want to be very careful buffing it... its DPS looks low on paper, but like the sniper its DPS is raw alpha (delivered all at once) and is delivered from up to 1200 range. It has been subject to numerous nerfs in the past for the very reason that an early raven that is well microed is very hard to kill without gunships, and will swiftly pay for itself. It is fast enough to get out of trouble, longer ranged than the sniper and unlike the sniper, it can belt out an insane amount of AOE damage at close range and evaporate t1 or fast raider types up close. It also retains effectivness vs radar dots or attacking approximate enemy locations, while the sniper requires LoS to hit most the time.

[Tim-the-maniac]

Balance stuff: basically stuff that has already been argued upon on the forums

If I had a million dollars for every time someone agrees on these forums, I'd be a very poor man

On a more serious note, it's good that we test different versions, but we should still try to consolidate the number of final releases, otherwise no-one ultimately knows what the label XTA means.

My initial idea was just to contribute the new models to deadnights svn but I realised that I could fix other smalls things that have been bothering me for ages with comparatively little effort.

I think we differ too much on balance ideas. I prefer much smaller changes with a lot of playing testing in-between. ( I say again, units shooting through each other will change more than you think )

@IK the net change to the raven will be a nerf not a buff, or are you talking to someone else?