The end of the maintenance branch -- "BA" questions - Page 2

The end of the maintenance branch -- "BA" questions

Classic game design, maintained to please you...

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TractorBamnsh
Posts: 9
Joined: 26 Oct 2013, 21:40

Re: The end of the maintenance branch -- "BA" questions

Post by TractorBamnsh »

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User was warned for this post. Felony 1. Thats just childish. For more readability i've added "code" tags arround the post.
-- abma
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TractorBamnsh
Posts: 9
Joined: 26 Oct 2013, 21:40

Re: The end of the maintenance branch -- "BA" questions

Post by TractorBamnsh »

Code: Select all

ADMIN ABUSE ADMIN ABUSE ADMIN ABUSE ADMIN ABUSE ADMIN ABUSE ADMIN ABUSE ADMIN ABUSE ADMIN ABUSE ADMIN ABUSE ADMIN ABUSE ADMIN ABUSE ADMIN ABUSE ADMIN ABUSE ADMIN ABUSE ADMIN ABUSE ADMIN ABUSE ADMIN ABUSE ADMIN ABUSE ADMIN ABUSE ADMIN ABUSE ADMIN ABUSE ADMIN ABUSE ADMIN ABUSE ADMIN ABUSE ADMIN ABUSE ADMIN ABUSE ADMIN ABUSE ADMIN ABUSE ADMIN ABUSE ADMIN ABUSE ADMIN ABUSE ADMIN ABUSE ADMIN ABUSE ADMIN ABUSE ADMIN ABUSE ADMIN ABUSE ADMIN ABUSE ADMIN ABUSE ADMIN ABUSE ADMIN ABUSE ADMIN ABUSE ADMIN ABUSE ADMIN ABUSE ADMIN ABUSE ADMIN ABUSE ADMIN ABUSE ADMIN ABUSE ADMIN ABUSE ADMIN ABUSE ADMIN ABUSE ADMIN ABUSE
:E

User was warned for this post, felony 1.

Superlative arguments, gentlemen. :lol:

-- FLOZi
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TractorBamnsh
Posts: 9
Joined: 26 Oct 2013, 21:40

Re: The end of the maintenance branch -- "BA" questions

Post by TractorBamnsh »

you see here? all the evidences of the ADMIN ABUSES

:E
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Lumpy3
Posts: 2
Joined: 19 Jun 2020, 01:28

Re: The end of the maintenance branch -- "BA" questions

Post by Lumpy3 »

For anyone stumbling upon this thread, my original opening post makes me out to be a crazy conspiracy theorist, that or perhaps i have been fed misinformation and I am leaping at shadows.

For reference when I returned to BA I wondered why springfightclub operated on a separate server and took it upon myself to find out what went down during my absence from the game and what factors caused this big rift.

To do so I spoke with several players in the community (from both sides of the fence) plus have done an extensive dig through of the forums, from this research I have fair if not muddy idea of how things have lead to where they are now.

It is obvious people feel very passionate about this game and that there are several conflicting interests from different camps, and that these passionate opinions boil over preventing constructive discussions / criticism about the future of this game.

From the information that I have found out myself, plus opinions (including my own) and feedback provided by members of the community there are concerns that as the developers for BAR have a commercial interest in the project, and that their intentions for the engine & spring platform are solely based on these commercial interests. As such these interests do not have the longevity / usability for BA & springfight club in mind, in fact potentially seeing them as a threat to the project.

The concerns raised regarding ownership of the engine, and the reason why I chimed into this discussion in the first place is that any future changes made to the engine will be solely done by developers of BAR and that future changes and tweaks made may inadvertantly affect game play of other mods not only including mando BA /springfightclub BA etc.

This may also lead to a point where other mods cannot use the engine at all, effectively hijacking the originally free to use spring engine for a commercial project, and also preventing others from using it.

Whilst I am no way against the development of BAR (I am in fact the complete opposite and am eager to see the project grow), it cannot be at the cost of the other game mods & communities, handing the reins to one camp / one mindset is in my opinion dangerous and input from other community members (however toxic they may appear) need to be included.
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User avatar
Silentwings
Moderator
Posts: 3646
Joined: 25 Oct 2008, 00:23

Re: The end of the maintenance branch -- "BA" questions

Post by Silentwings »

any future changes made to the engine will be solely done by developers of BAR
Fyi this is also complete rubbish, of those who were actually asked for agreement in the OP (which is also the list of people who have commit access to github.com/spring) only one (which is me) was ever a major contributor to BAR-specific code -- and it was 3+ years ago, and it was all GPL'ed, and afaik the current iteration of BAR has actually discarded almost all of what I wrote/did anyway, and at the time I was *also* running BA. (And, the reason I get asked now is because since then I maintained centralized infra that everyone except ZK uses.)
commercial interest
A few people in the past already got so fixated on developing/maintaining their own stuff as to cause trouble for others (SpringFightClub is a recent but mild example of this) and happily most people didn't. It doesn't really matter for practical purposes whether the root cause of sub-project selfishness is commercial or personal. Spring engine & its infra are GPL'ed, so a free game-insensitive engine will exist for as long as there are people around with the technical skill to maintain it - we certainly plan to do it here, and that's the reason for upgrading the OpenGL version in viewtopic.php?p=594342#p594342, but thanks to the GPL if we failed anyone with enough skill & time can also do it elsewhere.
longevity ... springfightclub
We "the Spring project" don't own/use SpringFightClub's infra or code (if they wrote any). They can subsist on our old 103 or whatever forever, we don't mind.
makes me out to be a crazy conspiracy theorist
Truth is all you came across as is someone who didn't really have much idea what was going on. Plenty of other conspiracy theories are available, though.

We do need threads kept for on-topic discussion of our own project - so I'm sorry to conflate the reasonable tone of your posts with some of the others, but "SpringFightClub/BA" posts that fail to engage with the question of how Spring upgrades its OpenGL usage, will be moved to here.
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Ares
Posts: 344
Joined: 19 Mar 2011, 13:43

Re: The end of the maintenance branch -- "BA" questions

Post by Ares »

Actually if you discount the votes of people who are working on BAR related projects or who have joined the BAR discord you will find the number of people speaking out against the proposal outnumber the number that support it.
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Ares
Posts: 344
Joined: 19 Mar 2011, 13:43

Re: The end of the maintenance branch

Post by Ares »

Clearly BAR is in agreement that everyone should agree with BAR, move to BAR discord and give the engine to BAR and anyone presenting alternate views should be banned.

Edit: didn't post this here every time I write a message it gets removed from original thread by BAR admins
Last edited by Ares on 20 Jun 2020, 17:45, edited 1 time in total.
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Pizzy
Posts: 1
Joined: 20 Jun 2020, 17:26

Re: The end of the maintenance branch

Post by Pizzy »

Please, dont kill BA.
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Ares
Posts: 344
Joined: 19 Mar 2011, 13:43

Re: The end of the maintenance branch

Post by Ares »

Your definition of "Upgrading Springs GL version" includes deprecating LUA. Zerver already did that.

If you want to play Spring without LUA leave and use Zervers engine forever, no one is making you stay.

Edit: didn't post this here every time I write a message it gets removed from original thread by BAR admins
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User avatar
FLOZi
MC: Legacy & Spring 1944 Developer
Posts: 6179
Joined: 29 Apr 2005, 01:14

Re: The end of the maintenance branch -- "BA" questions

Post by FLOZi »

I apologise.

Change minimum version to 101.
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abma
Spring Developer
Posts: 3597
Joined: 01 Jun 2009, 00:08

Re: The end of the maintenance branch -- "BA" questions

Post by abma »

why did nobody fix or fork BA to work with spring >= 104.0?

shouldn't the players apologize to the ba devs?

there is basicly no bug report at the ba repo about issues with the current ba version which works with an engine which is allowed on the offical server:

https://github.com/Balanced-Annihilatio ... ion/issues

You can play current ba on the official server since ages! Why don't you just do that?

You should really ask yourself why the ba development is dead.
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FabriceFABS
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Re: The end of the maintenance branch -- "BA" questions

Post by FabriceFABS »

Also, :
When Phoenix Annihilation 1.0 (BA 9.46 fork if it's correct) Silentwings was kind to make it compatible to 104 because BA 9.46 does NOT work with engines > 103.
He spent hours for nothing, no players use it.

Several PhoenixAnnihilation autohosts are currently up, maybe oneday it will be switched to others games.

I have the impression that everything is done so that what we propose is rejected systematically .... shame.
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Ares
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Re: The end of the maintenance branch -- "BA" questions

Post by Ares »

He spent hours for nothing, no players use it.
Bluestones efforts were good. However, due to being a backport of BA10 rather than port of BA9 it has thousands of ba10 changes which were not restored to 9.46 values, for example every unit script, cob and bos file is different in ways that results in totally different unit behavior and stats to 9.46.

Additionally it doesn't run on Mac and all Mac compatible versions are banned. Abma why don't you unban the Mac players? Would you like it if Linux was banned from playing Spring?
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abma
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Re: The end of the maintenance branch -- "BA" questions

Post by abma »

Ares wrote:
21 Jun 2020, 12:01
Additionally it doesn't run on Mac and all Mac compatible versions are banned. Why don't you unban the Mac players? Would you like it if Linux was banned from playing Spring?
we had very few players on osx. it was apple who removed opengl apis and so broke spring. also you could install some linux distribution on a mac to play it. also you could try to run it with wine, but with a similar limitation:
https://wiki.winehq.org/MacOS "Wine won't work on macOS Catalina 10.15"

also, 103.0 isn't banned on the official server, its just banned for large games.
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Ares
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Re: The end of the maintenance branch -- "BA" questions

Post by Ares »

Apple didn't ban large games you did that. Un-ban large games, would you like if you couldn't play large games?
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abma
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Re: The end of the maintenance branch -- "BA" questions

Post by abma »

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Silentwings
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Re: The end of the maintenance branch -- "BA" questions

Post by Silentwings »

Bluestones efforts were good. However, due to being a backport of BA10 rather than port of BA9
BOTH exist (not all by me) since 1+ years
- players requested reverts of BA10: https://github.com/Balanced-Annihilatio ... its/master
- minimal port of BA9.46: https://github.com/phoenix-annihilation ... its/master
BOTH are also currently available and hosted, for 1+ years now. As said, afaik I/others have no intention for future work on either, anyone who wants can fork (which I would prefer) or, if they have a history of being an essentially sane person, I might offer commit access.
Additionally ... Mac
Apple stopped supporting opengl, I/we/you can't fix that, and that is end of spring on mac. However for years it has been possible to buy a less mad computer, at a less mad price, or if you really must buy something shiny white and madly overpriced, you can at least hack a bit and run a less mad operating system on it in a dual boot. Not doing any of the above and still trying to play Spring will be considered mad.
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very_bad_soldier
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Re: The end of the maintenance branch

Post by very_bad_soldier »

I am not commenting on anything or want to start a discussion but out of interest: is it true that BAR is holding BA domain (www.balancedannihilation.com) and refuses to hand it out to BA people? Even redirecting BA requests to BAR?
I know, it's Ares and stuff, but that is quite a heavy accusation if its true.
Ares wrote:
19 Jun 2020, 15:11
BAR don't even use the official host themselves and currently pay to keep www.balancedannihilation.com offline using BAR donations rather than return it to the BA community. This is done in an attempt to deny BAs existance at http://springfightclub.com/ to raise as much money as possible for Iceuicks and was even used to boost his SEO by redirecting BA's site to BAR.
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Floris
Balanced Annihilation Developer
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Re: The end of the maintenance branch

Post by Floris »

very_bad_soldier wrote:
21 Jun 2020, 12:30
I am not commenting on anything or want to start a discussion but out of interest: is it true that BAR is holding BA domain (www.balancedannihilation.com) and refuses to hand it out to BA people? Even redirecting BA requests to BAR?
I know, it's Ares and stuff, but that is quite a heavy accusation if its true.
Ares wrote:
19 Jun 2020, 15:11
BAR don't even use the official host themselves and currently pay to keep www.balancedannihilation.com offline using BAR donations rather than return it to the BA community. This is done in an attempt to deny BAs existance at http://springfightclub.com/ to raise as much money as possible for Iceuicks and was even used to boost his SEO by redirecting BA's site to BAR.
It is true I still own the domain. Past 3 weeks I considered giving it to the fightclub people/Ares, after Adolf and me had a contructive voicechat about this. Afaics BA isnt owned by Ares or other people in their server. Handing over the BA domain to Ares would mean more than just handing over a domain. It would mean I would legitimize Ares as the new BA developer/owner, which is he currently is not. He hijacked the game, it is no longer maintained somewhere in the open. There are alternatives around which all have been rejected. I handed it over to cooperative people like Shox (and bluestone as inbetweener). It pains me to see BA in the state that it is. I must say that past 2 days hasnt advocated for Ares at all. I really tried to see justification/change of heart to hand over the domain and make whats left of the self-exile BA community be legit.

Why didnt Phoenix Annihilation hit it off, or why couldnt you go with Shox. Instead you went with Mando and Ares. Which can be even funny and ok with playing ba games. I dont want to hate, it just doesnt feel right. I already resigned being part of BA, but the ball is with bluestone (silentwings) and/or Shox.
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Floris
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Re: The end of the maintenance branch -- "BA" questions

Post by Floris »

btw can some forum admin one strip the ba dev tag off off my forum account here
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