Spring RTS Engine

Balance Committee
• A committee of active and high skilled players who care about maintaining and perfecting balance in the best interest of competitive play.
• At any time a committee member may raise a balance request (introduction of a change that impacts gameplay in any way)
• A balance request that is supported by a majority of the balance committee is added to dev backlog.
• Changes that do not impact gameplay such as engine updates may take place at any time (and could be retrospectively voted on if they did).
• 9 members in Committee, an odd number to avoid a tie.
• Committee members may put forwards ideas on behalf of members of the community
• Once per month the balance committee discuss the future of the game’s balance and the state of the game. The meeting is an opportunity to vote on outstanding balance requests and raise new ones.

Governor: title given to member of committee with highest TrueSkill. The Governor has the ability to add or remove members to committee (as a last resort). If the current Governor leaves the member of committee with highest TrueSkill becomes new Governor.
Deputy Governor: title given to members of the committee.

If you would like to be considered please say and Cartouche will consider you for the role.

Current Committee Members

Current Governor:
Cartouche

Deputy Governors:
[CRT]AdolfSatan
aleksey[HiGH]
[AFUS]Ares
[Sir]Grumpy
[ASA]CommanderSpice
[BoS]nixtux
[PinK]Pta
[Fx]Aether

What da fucking anal horse is this?? btw I don't give a strippers aids who balance it aslong as my OP liche doesn't get anal nerf because of crying cunts who can't make air like alektard, and Cart is my slut my only leader is Murtagon OP.

as true leader of the committee (op 50 ts) Adolf would you join us to make BA great again (and to become my slut) ?

can non committee members submit balance requests? i request please make air com explosion do full damage again, except to coms

Aether_0001 wrote:can non committee members submit balance requests?

Of course.
For a balance request you will need to make a forum thread which will then be used for open discussion and voting on the topic.

But as the committee is still in the planning phase and has no authority to make changes to the game yet, it is a bit early for that.

Aether_0001 wrote:i request please make air com explosion do full damage again, except to coms

There was a modoption to switch between full and reduced damage to all units. I would prefer bringing back that modoption, or even make that two modoptions (reduced dmg to all units but com, reduced dmg to com), so the server admins/players can decide if they want it.

I liked the games back when you had to build 2 aa in addition to the 2 llts in an early 8v8 push.
Also, you had the chance to break a heavily porced choke point for the cost of a com, which had the potential to turn the tide.

CommanderSpice wrote: I liked the games back when you had to build 2 aa in addition to the 2 llts in an early 8v8 push.
Also, you had the chance to break a heavily porced choke point for the cost of a com, which had the potential to turn the tide.

Heh, good old days. I missed when DT was functional and people actually make chokes with it.

I'm down to be considered, If it means keeping others such as alextard, and trackterd from being considered.

If you have a higher TS than someone in the committee and you want in, will he get kicked out?

klapmongool wrote:If you have a higher TS than someone in the committee and you want in, will he get kicked out?

Only the governor can add or remove committee members (as a last resort). You can express your interest to the governor at any time because no committee places are guarenteed.

Governor position is gained automatically by having highest ts in the committee.

Alternatively member change could be voted on in the same way as change requests, however this will be decided before the committee goes live and the final charter goes up.

In order to record change requests and maintain a dev backlog the Balance Committee will make use of a simple cloud Excel spreadsheet.

Members of the community ask the committee to enter changes they would like considered.



All the Member has to do to record their vote is write Accept or Reject under the column with their name, whenever it is conveient for them. When a dev finishes work on a change he enters the release number it comes under.

The spreadsheet automatically says when a change is added to backlog and when it is done. All this can be easily filtered.



Please would someone with a OneDrive account upload the spreadsheet so we can link to it, I can send you the .xlsx file.

Alternatively if someone wants to make a better version with Google Sheets or some other program please have a go and post your results.

This thread creates the impression, that the game dev is a contractor and the committee is the client. But this is an Open Source project. The game dev does, what (s)he thinks best and what motivates her. A committee composed of skilled players with an attitude is not a motivation.

I suggest to make a community website where you can post proposals and organize open votes. If you can reach a certain amount of players to visit it and shower the game dev with coockies it might even matter.

Such a site already exists: bountysource.

dansan wrote:A committee composed of skilled players with an attitude is not a motivation.

You should be aware that many of the community's most skilled players are also skilled developers.

To see this you just have to look at the track record of past balancers: Decay, Bluestone, Beherith - all very good at the game, within the top 20% of skilled players.

The Balance Committee's members are not just skilled players with "attitude". The Committee is made of experienced, dedicated volunteers who put themselves forward. The Committee has around 20,000 hours of in-game time between them and thousands of hours of development time too. They know the nuances and features of the game inside out. Collectively, they will decide on what does and does not belong. Collectively they are the best people to preserve the true legacy of BA.

If you regularly played BA you would know this straight away just by reading the list of Deputy Governors. The selection is not just the people with the highest Trueskills, it is the people who genuinely care about preserving BA's future and balance, the same people you regularly see playing the game.

dansan wrote:But this is an Open Source project

Committee doesn't change that fact.

dansan wrote:game dev is a contractor and the committee is the client

Skilled developers are just as entitled to hold positions within the Balance Committee and several are already members. Balancing and developing are seperate streams because they are independant of one another. The Committee lets everyone find their ideal balance and does not assume just because you are a great developer you want to be involved in balance decisions or vice versa.

If you take issue with the composition of the Balance Committee, start playing BA, or care about balance I recommend you put yourself forwards for a spot in future, like some people already have in this thread. Members can come and go as they please and as this happens places will become available. Alternatively you can approach the Governor directly and make your case.

I think my point didn't come through.

Ares wrote:You should be aware that many of the community's most skilled players are also skilled developers.

To see this you just have to look at the track record of past balancers: Decay, Bluestone, Beherith - all very good at the game, within the top 20% of skilled players.

You are giving an example for the reverse direction: many game devs were good players. In relation to the topic, the question is however: how many good players are qualified game devs?

Ares wrote:Collectively they are the best people to preserve the true legacy of

DSD

Ares wrote:If you regularly played BA you would know this straight away just by reading the list of Deputy Governors. The selection is not just the people with the highest Trueskills, it is the people who genuinely care about preserving BA's future and balance, the same people you regularly see playing

DSD

The reason I rarely play BA nowadays is 1) DSD and 2) attitude of players 3) RL.

Ares wrote:

dansan wrote:But this is an Open Source project

Committee doesn't change that fact.

Ofc not - it couldn't.
My point is, that a open source community is usually created *around* or *with* the developers. I have not noticed any in this thread.

Maybe the ones that have actually contributed to BA code, that I see in the governors list, would like to comment on their role in this.

Ares wrote:If you take issue with the composition of the Balance Committee...

I don't want any part in it. My concern is with the project itself. Not having heard anything from the current BA maintainer or previous maintainers, this smells like something that will either not connect to reality or in its consequence is a stage for a fork or a coup d'état.

Don't get me wrong: I think that the previous maintainers often did a poor job on explaining their balance changes. They merely reported what was done, but seldom why and the consequences.

I can perfectly well imagine a balancing working group that discusses balance proposals and their consequences in a way that the whole player base profits. Such a group might even take the time to reflect on game play changes a month after a release - again something the whole player community and also the game devs would profit from.

If such a working group would have the approval of the actual maintainer, I wouldn't be concerned. But as I don't see any mentioning of its role in the opening posting I am giving you a hint about it.

1. The committee are people who love BA, not only the highest skilled
2. The committee has collectively played more BA than any single person ever could
3. The committee balance for competitive play, you can type DSD as much as you like but it just shows you are out of touch with the motives of this group

You correctly noted that only players and developers have bothered to engage with this thread and put themselves forward to join the committee, rather than maintainers, who have remained deafeningly silent.

Both Forbs and Flow have been approached to join but neither even acknowledge a problem or need for change, seemingly set in their ways. Here you have the "raison d'être" of the committee in the first place. The cornerstone of a new golden era for BA.



So Flow, the ultimate question is: will you give the Balance Committee your approval? (with you as maintainer)

Given what Floris said in another thread:

Give me some time to make it similar to old ba again... previous versions were just test versions, nothing more.

I have a bit the impression that there is a lot of emotional reaction and rushed action here.

Given the above quote and what was written in this thread I do share dansans doubts.

Having players share their opinions and doubts and provide input surely can help. I am not sure if such a committee is the right way to go. To me it currently rather sounds like a good way to split the community in two. And in this case I'd rather bet my money on people who have shown to actually put a lot of work and effort in a project.

Finally, I do not want to condone some few players in this "committee" in this group who have an unacceptable game / talking attitude.

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Congratulations !!

So sorry, it's no longer my age to play in the kindergarten playground.

As my hosts got a policy http://ace.springrts.fr/our-policy I'm totally incompatible with part of players of this "balance group".
Remove me this from this group, I don't have time to spend for that.

Requirement for Balanced Analation Commitee membership: Must be able to handle the banter.

It's just a game :DDD Your online sandbox kingdoms do not matter :DDD

Here is the shareable link for the backlog.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

Members of the committee will be given admin access. Committee members can add changes to the backlog on behalf of the community.

Join channel OTA in springlobby if you are interested in how work is progressing.
Click Edit > Autojoin Channels > Type OTA on new line