Why dgunning doesn't hit target?

Why dgunning doesn't hit target?

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MasterBel2
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Why dgunning doesn't hit target?

Post by MasterBel2 »

Recently there have been a lot of games I've been in where at least one player complains about the accuracy of dgun - either saying 'it went straight through', or even the nightmare situation where it completely misses the (Immobile!!!) target. I'm aware that this has been a longstanding problem, but is it foreseeable that a fix is on the way?
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Silentwings
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Re: Why dgunning doesn't hit target?

Post by Silentwings »

I can't see a report of "I heard that X said that Y didn't work" going far, especially not when Y is #2 on the list of stuff that X blames when they misclick.

If the issue exists, reproduce in a replay in single player mode.
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Forboding Angel
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Re: Why dgunning doesn't hit target?

Post by Forboding Angel »

It's entirely possible for collision to miss (pass straight through). Recently I found an issue with evo where units that were 2x2 or slightly smaller would have projectiles pass right through their hitspheres, including (interestingly enough) a lightning weapon.

I'm not saying that that is what is happening here, but don't immediately discount it.
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MasterBel2
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Re: Why dgunning doesn't hit target?

Post by MasterBel2 »

I'll see what I can do to replicate it.

Edit:
20160921_103700_DeltaSiegeDry_103.sdfz.zip
(16.02 KiB) Downloaded 5 times
I couldn't get it to miss the llt (good) but I showed an example of it missing peewee and flea as an example. I've also seen it miss banthas before. And even once a krogoth. This should show what might be the root of the problem - the targeting system.

It's compressed and will need to be un-compressed - I couldn't just incude a normal replay.
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Forboding Angel
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Re: Why dgunning doesn't hit target?

Post by Forboding Angel »

Without watching it I can say with relative ease that the targeting system is fine and that it's more likely collision testing.

Edit: From independent testing, it's the custom collision volumes that BA is using.

Unit scales in BA are really off kilter and it looks like someone set custom boxes and cylinders in an attempt to make collisions more exact, but the problem is that it's actually causing problems.

For example, the flash tank profile is damn near impossible to hit and it's box center is almost in the ground. I was able to reproduce dgun shots going right through them.
Ares
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Re: Why dgunning doesn't hit target?

Post by Ares »

Its a dgun problem, after an engine change long ago that caused behaviour change. Its bad but don't change unit hitboxes lol.
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Forboding Angel
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Re: Why dgunning doesn't hit target?

Post by Forboding Angel »

It is not an engine problem. This is a dumb hitboxing problem:

Image

Spring does not do well with tiny hitboxes.
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MasterBel2
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Re: Why dgunning doesn't hit target?

Post by MasterBel2 »

Also dgunning rectors - you just can't. The dgun completely misses, and is obviously in completely the wrong area. And you're saying this is a hitbox problem? I get how that explains some things, but I don't get how it explains targeting issues.
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Forboding Angel
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Re: Why dgunning doesn't hit target?

Post by Forboding Angel »

Image


Purplish pink dot is the centerpoint of the model (and where weapons aim)
Image

Seems to work fine vs armfus
Image

Corfus has a proper sphere:
Image

Dgun on target:
Image

Dgun hits properly:
Image
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MasterBel2
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Re: Why dgunning doesn't hit target?

Post by MasterBel2 »

So this behaviour is the fault of hitboxes not targeting:
20160923_151925_wanderlust_V01_103.sdfz.zip
Dgunnin constructor and
(20.95 KiB) Downloaded 1 time
I can somewhat see your point, but it still looks like there's a targeting issue aswell as a hitbox issue here.
Aside: How do you show hitboxes etc?
Aside no.2: BA's graphics are amazing. It's almost going to be a shame to leave it behind when we move to BAR
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MasterBel2
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Re: Why dgunning doesn't hit target?

Post by MasterBel2 »

Also looking at the dgunning of the armfus it's slightly off. To the left in the behind shot. Am I wrong?

But also, whatever the problem is, how should it be fixed? It's lost me (and countless others) games.
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Forboding Angel
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Re: Why dgunning doesn't hit target?

Post by Forboding Angel »

Seriously? BA is beautiful? BA looks like shit. Go have a look at Evolution RTS if you want to see a game that has really good looking effects.

As chance would have it, I'm adding niceties to BA though, so it's about to get a pretty serious kick in the ass effectwise, and it will result in a very major performance boost as well.

Basically the way targeting works is that it aims at the center of the model. I have a _post fix for this, but BA's issue is the fact that friendlies block shots, hence the issue. As you can see in 9.46 there is a modoption that you can enable to allow fire through friendlies, which results in significantly better gameplay, but it also allows for using hitspheres again (however I have not integrated the hitspheres fix into that yet).
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MasterBel2
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Re: Why dgunning doesn't hit target?

Post by MasterBel2 »

So could you explain why a hitsphere would be better? Because wouldn't that mean that the unit 'takes up' a lot more space than it should? And yes, it'll be easier to hit, but also harder to not hit.

And what I like about BA is how everything looks real - evo effects are really cool, I love it, but it's how the metal plating on BA units looks so real (especially arm)
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Forboding Angel
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Re: Why dgunning doesn't hit target?

Post by Forboding Angel »

MasterBel2 wrote:...Because wouldn't that mean that the unit 'takes up' a lot more space than it should? And yes, it'll be easier to hit, but also harder to not hit.
Image
MasterBel2 wrote:...it's how the metal plating on BA units looks so real (especially arm)
Image

Look, I'm not trying to be a jerk, but you're kidding me, right? I find your comment very frustrating.
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MasterBel2
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Re: Why dgunning doesn't hit target?

Post by MasterBel2 »

Yes I worded it horribly, but currently I don't see how a hitsphere on an object, say an aircraft repair pad, is going to be any more realistic. Based on what I've seen the issue is prettey much targetting. I just don't understand. But I'll have to take your word for it because, I guess, I'm relatively new to all this sort of stuff.

And on BA's models: I'm not saying it's the best, but the lack of texture on models of non *A mods makes them look… well… not real. The flash isn't a masterpiece, but it's close enough to reality that it looks real to me. Most other mods have their units fall into… well… the uncanny valley. Sure, it looks real, but like made out of flimsy plastic. I'm also a really picky so-and-so :)
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