Debris damage

[klapmongool]

Comms lose several % over small unit debris hitting them. Last game I an LLT shot a jeffy and the debris of it killed a radar. Debris damage is alot higher than it used to be. It is annoying and it causes weird situations for players ('what did it die from?) because it is not/hardly visible.

I don't mind there being some damage but 'back in the day' comms didn't die from debris. Now it happens every 5 games.

Can it be toned down a bit in a way it doesn't destroy wind chaining?

[Beherith]

Could you please post or link to the replay where this happened, and the approximate time it happened? As far as i remember, debris does a flat 20 damage to all units it hits. I like the debris mechanism by the way, often it results in the killing strike.

[klapmongool]

http://replays.springrts.com/replay/e5a ... 91cdf4421/

At 3.35. My radar.

[Silentwings]

Debris damage is alot higher than it used to be.

Some indication of timeframe please.

I don't remember any change in the past two years that would have affected this, but you can scan the engine changelogs if you like, since its that which would be responsible.

Also, do you have a replay of a commander actually dying this way? I find it hard to believe "every five games" since I don't recall seeing it.

T1 radars have low enough health that I suspect they sometimes die to debris.

[klapmongool]

Debris damage is alot higher than it used to be.

Some indication of timeframe please.

I don't remember any change in the past two years that would have affected this, but you can scan the engine changelogs if you like, since its that which would be responsible.

Also, do you have a replay of a commander actually dying this way? I find it hard to believe "every five games" since I don't recall seeing it.

T1 radars have low enough health that I suspect they sometimes die to debris.

debris does a flat 20 damage

Radar has 80 hp.

I'm not gonna play the 'point out the change in the engine-game'. I just don't know enough about the engine to do that. Debris seems to have increased somewhere around July 2013. Lately, however, I started seeing more and more 'weird deaths' such as this radar example. A comm every 5 games is an exaggeration I guess. Still It happened 2 times past week. That is 2 times more than in the other thousands of hours that I played this game.


So, I can't tell you anything you don't know about the code of BA or Spring. I can tell you that something has changed, for the worse.

I'd start with looking into plane wreck damage, changes made to increase chain damage and the 'flat damage' behe mentioned.

[Silentwings]

Radar has 80 hp.

So if something explodes nearby, taking four debris hits as a result seems quite likely to me & afaik it does happen often. Crashing plane damage (which is actually just the self d explosion on impact) & "chain" damage (when chain is not caused by debris) are processed independently of debris and I suspect are not related.

A replay showing what you think is wrong with coms taking debris damage would be very helpful - since if there is something here my first guess would be that there is a rare bug coming from some other mechanism. I don't know of any recent change (to BA or engine) that could be involved.

[klapmongool]

Radar has 80 hp.

So if something explodes nearby, taking four debris hits as a result seems quite likely to me & afaik it does happen often. Crashing plane damage (which is actually just the self d explosion on impact) & "chain" damage (when chain is not caused by debris) are processed independently of debris and I suspect are not related.

A replay showing what you think is wrong with coms taking debris damage would be very helpful - since if there is something here my first guess would be that there is a rare bug coming from some other mechanism. I don't know of any recent change (to BA or engine) that could be involved.

You think it is desirable that a jeffy getting shot by an llt creates so much debris that it kills a radar at the distance in the replay? I don't, think about it: how much damage does a dieing jeffy do? How much debris does it actually spread? If at that distance 4 pieces of debris hit the radar, how many pieces did it spread to begin with?

Just in case this got lost in the message: This is causing weird kills/deaths that are hard to explain going by what is seen. Those 2 games with comms dieing everyone was like.. wtf happened there?

If I find a replay i'll provide.

[Silentwings]

I made no comment on what I think about the mechanism (and nor did I check if it was what behe suggested above).

I asked only for an example - words are not enough to diagnose what happened.

[klapmongool]

I made no comment on what I think about the mechanism (and nor did I check if it was what behe suggested above).

I asked only for an example - words are not enough to diagnose what happened.

Example on radar you have. That is also what you mentioned in your post.

[klapmongool]

Got it!

http://replays.springrts.com/replay/449 ... ef270f133/

At 3.15 it gets interesting on mid hill. Dapyx is dgunning stuff but has 180 hp left. Nothing is shooting at him.

[Silentwings]

Thanks (actually, both my posts asked for replays with coms, although as it turns out nothing special is happening for coms).

I've now run your replays through my stuff. In the first, your radar is hit by two pieces of Jeffy debris, causing 49.9 damage each, which kills it instantly. In the second, Dapyxs com is hit by 4 pieces of AK debris, again doing 49.9 damage each, which kills its instantly (it had 188hp). In general it seems debris do a flat rate damage of 49.9 per piece.

Obviously 49.9 damage per piece of debris is too high for cases like those & I'll change it to be in some way a reflection of unit weapon/explosion/size. Thanks for pointing this out.

To answer your question above - yes it can be done without affecting wind chaining. Of course, the chaining that can be caused by debris from mobile (small) units will be affected.

[klapmongool]

Thanks (actually, both my posts asked for replays with coms, although as it turns out nothing special is happening for coms).

I've now run your replays through my stuff. In the first, your radar is hit by two pieces of Jeffy debris, causing 49.9 damage each, which kills it instantly. In the second, Dapyxs com is hit by 4 pieces of AK debris, again doing 49.9 damage each, which kills its instantly (it had 188hp). In general it seems debris do a flat rate damage of 49.9 per piece.

Obviously 49.9 damage per piece of debris is too high for cases like those & I'll change it to be in some way a reflection of unit weapon/explosion/size. Thanks for pointing this out.

To answer your question above - yes it can be done without affecting wind chaining. Of course, the chaining that can be caused by debris from mobile (small) units will be affected.

Thanks!

PS. Can't wait for a piece of a Krog to come flying at me

[Ares]

I find it hilarious when stuff like this happens, its rare and memorable.

I remember one time seeing a t1 con vehicle got blasted airborne on DSD and fly across the map. When it eventually landed it instantly died and set off its owners metal maker farm. Classic BA moment.

Arguably, with superior micro the player could have cntrl-d the con before it landed and averted disaster.

[Silentwings]

I once saw a missile truck fly across the map, hit a commander directly in the head, and kill it in a single shot; I agree that these rare moments are worth keeping

But what klap pointed out has a significant effect on 1v1s, which are more srsbsns, so its better off changed.