> Dots in Customformations are of consistent size depending on zoom and terrain height > Fixed crash in Customformations if both mouse buttons pressed (thanks PixelOfDeath) > Set Target can now be used with Customformations > Fixed faction changing in coops > Workaround for luaui crash on empty BA.lua > In team com-ends, when game ends, units are destroyed in a wave of death, outwards from last com > Fixed ambiguities in context build with radar, sonar & dragons eyes. > AdvPlayerList gives a chat notification when m/e are shared to allies > T1 Ships Revamp! (see below) > Added map icon for anti-air & gave scouts a smaller map icon > Fixed icon size when units are in ground/sea transports > Fixed Startpoint Guesser sometimes not recognizing genuine startpoints > Fixed passenger explosions on hover transport death > Reduced Can maxspeed 1.35->1.25 > Reduced Mercury/Screamer buildcost by about 10% > Commando only auto-builds mines when movestate is roam > Added draw/point spam blocker widget (default disabled) > Made Specific Unit Reclaimer work with all types of constructor
> Details of T1 ships revamp (tweaks, T2 ships revamp, etc. to follow in a later release)
- Commanders now have an underwater weapon, a short range laser which fires when they are not building/repairing (dps similar to the existing red laser)
- Commanders can now build Floating Radar Towers
- T1 Torpedo launchers built by Commanders and Amphibious vehicles are now initially created on the sea floor and pop-up once when complete.
- Arm T1 Torpedo launcher reload time reduced (1.9->1.7), AoE increased a little (16->48 with 40% edgeeffectiveness)
- Core T1 Torpedo launcher reload time reduced (1.9->1.7), AoE increased a little (16->48 with 40% edgeeffectiveness)
- Both T1 Torpedo launcher turret turn speeds increased a little
- Both t1 Torpedo launchers have flighttime (1.35)
- Arm Floating HLT Energy Per Shot reduced (75->40), Reload time reduced (1->0.9), Target move error reduced (0.2->0.1), Special damage vs Commanders added (210->300)
- Core Floating HLT Energy Per Shot reduced (75->45), damage increased (210->231), Target move error reduced (0.2->0.1) Special damage vs Commanders added (210->250)
- Both Floating HLT Turret turn speeds increased a little
- Both Floating HTLs Energymake added (+5)
- Both Floating HLTs Buildtime reduced 5%
- Arm T1 Floating Anti-air Tower Metalcost increased (71->85), Health increased (252->340)
- Arm T1 Floating Anti-air Tower Weapon reload time reduced (1.7->1.2), damage increased (113->125)
- Both T2 Ressurection subs moved to T1, costs reduced a little, movement enhanced (Ressurection Workertime 450, Repair Workertime 250)
- Both T1 Construction ships Repair Workertime reduced (250->125), Build Workertime still 250.
- Both T1 Construction ships acceleration increased.
- Both T1 Construction ships added Dragons Teeth & Pop Up turrets (Arm Claw for Arm, Dragons Maw for Core) for anti-swarm coastal defense
- Arm Dragons Claw & Core Dragons Maw maxslope increased (10->18)
- Core T1 Scoutboat footprint reduced, renamed 'Patrol Boat', health increased (228->345), autoheal added (1.5)
- Core T1 Scoutboat laser redone, range increased (220->260), more rapid fire, about 40% more total dps
- Arm T1 Scoutboat footprint reduced, renamed 'Patrol Boat', health increased (224->345), autoheal added (1.5)
- Arm T1 Scoutboat laser redone, range increased (220->260), more rapid fire, about 40% more total dps
- Core Corvette metalcost reduced (367->294), energycost increased (1912->2294), energymake added (+3)
- Core Corvette weapons tweaked, energypershot reduced (20->5) & now do more damage at max range
- Arm Corvette metalcost reduced (378->302), energycost increased (2055->2466)
- Arm Corvette lasers replaced with EMG cannons, no energy cost, roughly the same dps.
- Corvette corpses health reduced, can now become heaps, metal reduced in line with unit metal cost reduction
- Arm Destroyer health increased (2575->3090), sight distance increased (490->550)
- Arm Destroyer Turret Gun reload time reduced (1.4->1.2), damage increased (160->175)
- Arm Destroyer Depth Charge tweaked (fires a little faster, lower damage, more AOE, less move accuracy)
- Arm T1 Sub handling improved, small autoheal added, sight distance increased, corpse metal reduced.
- Arm T1 Sub weapon AoE Increased a little, damage increased a little (600->650), accuracy improved
- Core T1 Sub handling improved, small autoheal added, sight distance increased, corpse metal reduced.
- Core T1 Sub weapon AoE Increased a little, damage increased a little (600->650), accuracy improved
- Arm Sea Transport metal cost reduced (919->735), energy cost increased (4639->6239), buildtime reduced (14538->10176)
- Arm Sea Transport small autoheal added (+5), sightdistance increased
- Core Sea Transport metal cost reduced (887->710), eenrgy cost increased (4768->6286), buildtime reduced (13663->9564)
- Core Sea Transport small autoheal added (+5), sightdistance increased
- Both Transport ships can now load and unload units again (workaround for an engine bug)
- Both Transport ships operate in any water depth
- Arm Advanced Shipyard Health Increased (4512->5415), energymake added (+25)
- Core Advanced Shipyard health increased (4416->5300), energymake added (+25)
Played some matches with the new sea with Flop, Teddy and bybyk. The overall feeling was that you get just too much stuff too fast, the game turns too much into lucky RPS this way.
Changing the shipyard and tidal isn't a good way to try fixing the bigger sea maps which are usually flawed by default, with having just 1 starting mex and no shore to sit comm on and use dgun from. Giving more metal to use at start mostly encourages rushing. Not to mention the huge nerfing to hovers, amphibs, etc. this gives.
As for unit balance, subs might be too powerful with the better turning and destroyer depthcharge accuracy nerf.
I don't really see the real need for any big sea change. When you've got a good map, and players with basic knowledge of how sea works, it used to be really varied and interesting. What is needed though is more good big maps with sea.
Johannes wrote:Played some matches with the new sea with Flop, Teddy and bybyk. The overall feeling was that you get just too much stuff too fast, the game turns too much into lucky RPS this way.
Changing the shipyard and tidal isn't a good way to try fixing the bigger sea maps which are usually flawed by default, with having just 1 starting mex and no shore to sit comm on and use dgun from. Giving more metal to use at start mostly encourages rushing. Not to mention the huge nerfing to hovers, amphibs, etc. this gives.
As for unit balance, subs might be too powerful with the better turning and destroyer depthcharge accuracy nerf.
I don't really see the real need for any big sea change. When you've got a good map, and players with basic knowledge of how sea works, it used to be really varied and interesting. What is needed though is more good big maps with sea.
+1
I could start to argue on every single point but as Johannes pointed out, all those changes have ramification on the overall game balance with hover, thus the all cross-type T1/T1.5 balance. And imo that just make the sea game much more like a poker game (if you only consider sea, otherwise, that is just completely unba over the full game: corvette own hover even more hard now, etc... but like I said I am not going to start argue and open the pandora box, everything was kind of OK-ish and "re-balancing" it broke what other BA maintainer achieve during all those years)
Another thread pointed out all the pbs with some of those sea "rebalance" and even it looks like some points have been taken into account, it does not worse breaking balance so some noob can learn sea more easily or whatever the reason is.
Hopefully, I can still play ffa on acid map (even I dont play that much anymore) so I dont care that much...However :
This is no sumo, can are supposed to have decent speed, revert back hp to its original value if cans are too strong would be an option, there is no point to have 2 units having the same characteristics... but with different price, hp, etc...
About banta, I found noone to disagree (except silentwing) for nerfing them (+20% overhall cost for exemple). If someone disagree, please PM me and lets make some duel, me with banthas and ground AA, you with any core units with equivalent metal...
albator wrote:
About banta, I found noone to disagree (except silentwing) for nerfing them (+20% overhaul cost for example). If someone disagree, please PM me and lets make some duel, me with banthas and ground AA, you with any core units with equivalent metal...
I think I disagreed with you on the bantha. Guess you ignored that. A 'duel' is useless for deciding whether it needs a nerf or not. In the last (10? 20?) versions of BA bantha's were not overused. Why nerf them then?
albator wrote:
About banta, I found noone to disagree (except silentwing) for nerfing them (+20% overhaul cost for example). If someone disagree, please PM me and lets make some duel, me with banthas and ground AA, you with any core units with equivalent metal...
I think I disagreed with you on the bantha. Guess you ignored that. A 'duel' is useless for deciding whether it needs a nerf or not. In the last (10? 20?) versions of BA bantha's were not overused. Why nerf them then?
cool, lets play :) what is your akka ingame ?
For the record, bantha are overused in ffa, that the best click-and-hope for the best unit. When I have just slightly better eco, i just spam them, nothing can be done to stop them, even heavy porc get destroy by self D.
Ty for comments on sea stuff. In short - the RPS issue and the rushing are fair points imo. RPS with sea was present before too, although in our test games we thought we'd made it a bit less so.
About bantha - I don't much believe in duels for balancing either but we tested a while ago and, cost for cost, killed bantha with equivalent in reaper, also shiva, also morty (!). Also @ alba: I already said to you that (when I asked) several good ffa players didn't share your opinion.
albator wrote:
About banta, I found noone to disagree (except silentwing) for nerfing them (+20% overhaul cost for example). If someone disagree, please PM me and lets make some duel, me with banthas and ground AA, you with any core units with equivalent metal...
I think I disagreed with you on the bantha. Guess you ignored that. A 'duel' is useless for deciding whether it needs a nerf or not. In the last (10? 20?) versions of BA bantha's were not overused. Why nerf them then?
cool, lets play :) what is your akka ingame ?
For the record, bantha are overused in ffa, that the best click-and-hope for the best unit. When I have just slightly better eco, i just spam them, nothing can be done to stop them, even heavy porc get destroy by self D.
Playing won't work. We would play a hundred games and not a single bantha would be used.
klapmongool wrote:Playing won't work. We would play a hundred games and not a single bantha would be used.
1 ffa game over 2 is won by banta spam, just check replays (min arm wins :)) . At least that is what I do, when i just a bit ahead in eco, I spam banta and i can relax, just click to enemy base, sometimes selfD and easy win
Silentwings wrote:About bantha - I don't much believe in duels for balancing either but we tested a while ago and, cost for cost, killed bantha with equivalent in reaper, also shiva, also morty (!). Also @ alba: I already said to you that (when I asked) several good ffa players didn't share your opinion.
I don't believe in duel either, precisely because you cannot micro that well and that eventually big unit wins cause they need far less micro, but making duel show that if is already difficult to find a counter to a unit, then it is quite unba. What I like about BA, it that you can most of the time find a counter that cost far less metal to fight against; banta is the less likely one for which you can do that (when you are core).
I don't expect all player to share my opinion, some player think that if you are ahead in eco you should win easy, I think the game get boring this way.
Yeah the problem with Bantha is that it's boring. It's ok if there's a simple unit whose purpose is to just have a ton of HP and some good firepower too (+selfd option), but if it's too powerful it turns from something good at taking on big defenses for cost, into something good at taking on anything for cost.
Compare to how Vanguard used to be the real deal at one point, at least you had to constantly target their shots and maneuver to take advantage of those cliffs. With Bantha - just press forward and not much more you can do -> lame.
With BA 7.78 if I try reclaim many same constructions (i.e t1 solar) with 1 or more nanos by drag and hold "e" pressed on constructions while game running, it doesn't work, nanos stop reclaim. It can work if each time one reclaim command is gave. (not a multiple reclaim command).
It worked with ba 7.76.
ba7-78_nano_reclaim.png (220.06 KiB) Viewed 5871 times
Last edited by phi711 on 09 Jul 2013, 12:12, edited 1 time in total.
I made a mistake : Yes it don't work with 7.76 too. (Worked with 7.75).
I tried alt+e but it don't worked. (shift+e or ctrl+e don't worked too).
Too I tried disable/enable widgets unit_reclaimer and/or specific_unit_reclaimer but don't worked too.
Moreover when I send a alt+e command, if I press alt before e for do it, the mouse cursor image don't change. (The cursor don't become a "moving square"(if it wasn't already one before of course)).
With BA 7.78 if I try reclaim many same constructions (i.e t1 solar) with 1 or more nanos by drag and hold "e" pressed on constructions while game running, it doesn't work, nanos stop reclaim. It can work if each time one reclaim command is gave. (not a multiple reclaim command).