Leaderboard in FFA mode - Page 3

Leaderboard in FFA mode

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Ares
Balanced Annihilation Developer
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Joined: 19 Mar 2011, 13:43

Re: Leaderboard in FFA mode

Post by Ares »

smoth wrote: biggest threat because they have the most metal? that seems silly.
Either this is sarcasm or you don't play BA? Few games link economy, resources and Intel so intrinsically to victory: try playing comet from your starting 3 mass points while letting your opponent have map control.

There is an undeniable correlation between metal and victory, checking my last 20 replays in 17 of them the winning team "coincidentally" spent the most metal, and the two which didn’t were small fast-paced 1v1s where flash tanks decided the outcome before t2 could even come into play.

In addition there is no such thing as an “arbitrary score,” unless the scoreboard simply shows numbers at random. Tactical information is being forfeited for free and personally all I can see this doing is subtracting from the gameplay (regardless how insignificantly).
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Cheesecan
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Re: Leaderboard in FFA mode

Post by Cheesecan »

Team games? Thought we were discussing FFA. In FFA a newbie can tech to +500 m in the corner and still be steamrolled by pro who bombs adv fusion+mm cluster or w/e.
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Ares
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Re: Leaderboard in FFA mode

Post by Ares »

Cheesecan wrote:Team games? In FFA a newbie can tech to +500 m in the corner and still be steamrolled by pro...
Resources play the same role in FFA as standard team games, its hiding what you earn that becomes more of a deciding factor.

Nearly 50% of the games I play are 3-5 player ffas, sometimes 2v2v2s - that's why I would prefer if the change was optional and have strong feelings on the matter.
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sillynanny
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Re: Leaderboard in FFA mode

Post by sillynanny »

smoth wrote:
sillynanny wrote:Scouting should be rewarded, so this ranking display should not exist.
feature that doesn't effect you in game, doesn't effect gameplay can be ignored you veto because your prefered gamestyle is not supported.. LAME.
I don't veto shit. Scouting is not a play style, it's a best practice. In life too.

Pearheaps when I am making a serious post you could kindly go fuck yourself or your mother, smoth?
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gajop
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Re: Leaderboard in FFA mode

Post by gajop »

sillynanny wrote: stuff
smoth can be annoying sometimes, but try to control the language
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smoth
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Re: Leaderboard in FFA mode

Post by smoth »

sillynanny wrote: you could kindly go fuck yourself or your mother, smoth?
:roll:

Feel better now, is the anger out? good.

Scouting is a major part of BA, more important is the early mex queue but the biggest key aspect of ba is managing build power via nanos IMO. Having an excess of metal TO ME is the mark of a player who isn't really pushing his economy. I mean sure it is good to have a surplus but you guys get so goofy acting like you can just MATHS your way to balance. Unless one of you has a PHD in math and an expert in chaos theory I don't suspect you can MATHS spring. Even then it is an imperfect open system where you have players doing actually BAD choices producing sub-optimal and often downright bizaare behaviors which yeild unpredictable results. But it's ok because metal value means bestest. In the end it is just a single number of MANY. Maybe the player does have the most metal? So what, perhaps he has not invested in any proportionately real build power, therefor cannot actually spend the metal. Maybe his energy econ is balls so all his shit is going to ejam when he fires that first bertha.

Who knows!?! the SCOUTER knows.

that is my point. It is just one number. we could walk around and measure penis size. I can promise you the guy with the biggest one does not always have the best game with the ladies.
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Johannes
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Re: Leaderboard in FFA mode

Post by Johannes »

That is relevant to ranking the metal worth of a players units how?

And early mex queue being more important than scouting... what
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smoth
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Re: Leaderboard in FFA mode

Post by smoth »

You have your way of playing, your opinion, cannot change you or your opinion, won't debate it with you it would be bashing a head against a wall.
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klapmongool
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Joined: 13 Aug 2007, 13:19

Re: Leaderboard in FFA mode

Post by klapmongool »

Johannes wrote:That is relevant to ranking the metal worth of a players units how?

And early mex queue being more important than scouting... what
Thus initial queue = win.

I honestly don't know what smoth is doing in this topic. I don't think i'v ever seen him play (or by what alias do you go, smoth?) so the chance that he knows what he is talking about is small.

For example: i dont need to actually calculate, ?via chaos theory?, my way through an ffa, or any game for that matter. No good player does. We (yes) feel (due to years of combining all the information ingame) what needs to be done, when. That extra information of metal value of players will only be added to this mix of info and experience that is building in the players heads.

Keep telling yourself that metal value doesnt mean anything but if i just wiped a good player off his land and i see his m value rise increasingly fast i know he is doing a sea eco and i know when to scout/nuke/torp/whatever him. If i see a nub doing it, who cares.

Same goes for any situation. The point here is: m value might not mean anything without any other information. But add it to all the other stuff you know somehow, it becomes a game changer. For the better or for the worse.
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Pxtl
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Re: Leaderboard in FFA mode

Post by Pxtl »

@Smoth, we're not talking about how much metal he has in storage - that would be silly.

We're talking about the sum total worth of his *units*. That is, I have N1 fusions at X1 metal each, M2 LLTs at X2 metal each, M3 gunships at X3 metal each... plus one incomplete nuke launcher at C4 completion (on a scale of [0,1]) that will have X4 value when complete.

My total "score" is the sum of X1M1 + X2M2 + X3M3 + C4X4...

Then add the amount of metal I have in storage.

That's how much I'm "winning" the game. Now obviously a better player will easily be able to overcome my advantage, but still, fundamentally the player with the most "value" is the one who is winning. Just like a guy who is in the lead in a foot race is the one who's furthest ahead on the track, or the guy who's in the lead in a deathmatch game is the one who has the most frags... there's no guarantee the player won't suddenly suffer from a wave of nausea that incapacitates him and makes him lose the game, or that he hasn't overexerted himself and now a better player is going to clearly take the game. But at the moment, he's *winning*.

A good FFA game is predicated on the fact that players attack the one who is *winning*. Giving the other players a little bit of free intel in the form of the information "who's winning?" will help the quality of the FFA experience, although it will lose a teensy bit of the reconnaissance game that is integral to most Spring games.

Really, thinking it over, the details aren't the concern. The exact numbers aren't the concern. We just need the information of "who's winning"?
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albator
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Re: Leaderboard in FFA mode

Post by albator »

smoth wrote:
sillynanny wrote: Having an excess of metal TO ME is the mark of a player who isn't really pushing his economy. I mean sure it is good to have a surplus but you guys get so goofy acting like you can just MATHS your way to balance. Unless one of you has a PHD in math and an expert in chaos theory I don't suspect you can MATHS spring.
i won a ffa involving +150 kE eco (+200kE to my opponent) where storing massive (~100km )amount of metal regurly made me win.

When you have 3 factory dedicated to exclusively produce "reclaimer", then you can switch from +1500 m/sec to 4000 very fast and you need a consequent metal storage.

Then you can outspam krow (or any best metal drain per nano per sec)
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albator
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Re: Leaderboard in FFA mode

Post by albator »

Pxtl wrote:@Smoth, we're not talking about how much metal he has in storage - that would be silly.

We're talking about the sum total worth of his *units*. That is, I have N1 fusions at X1 metal each, M2 LLTs at X2 metal each, M3 gunships at X3 metal each... plus one incomplete nuke launcher at C4 completion (on a scale of [0,1]) that will have X4 value when complete.

My total "score" is the sum of X1M1 + X2M2 + X3M3 + C4X4...

Then add the amount of metal I have in storage.

That's how much I'm "winning" the game. Now obviously a better player will easily be able to overcome my advantage, but still, fundamentally the player with the most "value" is the one who is winning. Just like a guy who is in the lead in a foot race is the one who's furthest ahead on the track, or the guy who's in the lead in a deathmatch game is the one who has the most frags... there's no guarantee the player won't suddenly suffer from a wave of nausea that incapacitates him and makes him lose the game, or that he hasn't overexerted himself and now a better player is going to clearly take the game. But at the moment, he's *winning*.

A good FFA game is predicated on the fact that players attack the one who is *winning*. Giving the other players a little bit of free intel in the form of the information "who's winning?" will help the quality of the FFA experience, although it will lose a teensy bit of the reconnaissance game that is integral to most Spring games.

Really, thinking it over, the details aren't the concern. The exact numbers aren't the concern. We just need the information of "who's winning"?
+ M2E

metal value MM-reversed from E-cost of all unit (to take air into account especially)
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Pxtl
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Re: Leaderboard in FFA mode

Post by Pxtl »

Well yes, obviously a general "cost" attribute is better than "metal".
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