Leaderboard in FFA mode - Page 2

Leaderboard in FFA mode

Classic game design, maintained to please you...

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ginekolog
Posts: 837
Joined: 27 Feb 2006, 13:49

Re: Leaderboard in FFA mode

Post by ginekolog »

On the other hand to see all others rank would take out mystery from game. ATM u have to scout good to see who is the strongest.

Maybe it would be better only to see your own rank for start. Or make game options ofc.
BaNa
Posts: 1562
Joined: 09 Sep 2007, 21:05

Re: Leaderboard in FFA mode

Post by BaNa »

Imo in most cases this would be a change for the good, facilitating ad hoc alliances against the strongest player. The need for scouting is there as always, you scout to see what the enemy has his m in, and where he is / how he is deployed.
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Johannes
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Re: Leaderboard in FFA mode

Post by Johannes »

smoth wrote:
sillynanny wrote:Scouting should be rewarded, so this ranking display should not exist.
feature that doesn't effect you in game, doesn't effect gameplay can be ignored you veto because your prefered gamestyle is not supported.. LAME.
Of course it affects everyones gameplay, or what are you trying to say?


Btw, I'm not so sure people would go out of their way to attack the strongest player. If they just hope someone else will do that, why not just sit back & build your own stuff... Also the strongest player will know where they stand, that nobody is bigger than them, so it makes it safer to just porc up and play safe, without having to worry about someone out-ecoing you without you knowing.
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smoth
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Re: Leaderboard in FFA mode

Post by smoth »

Because all scores are arbitrary values. That is why it doesn't effect gameplay.
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Johannes
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Re: Leaderboard in FFA mode

Post by Johannes »

Then why is there a thread here, discussing the gameplay effects of such rankings?
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smoth
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Re: Leaderboard in FFA mode

Post by smoth »

Beherith wrote:Would you think it to be a good idea to display the ranked order of the total metal value of each player in FFA mode?
Should the player not see his own rank? Should it be updated constantly or just every minute?
He is asking what people would like to see in a score board.
Beherith wrote:Would this make it easier to gang up on the strongest player or would it help the strongest player more by telling him who is the weakest?
He is asking if there are possible psychological implications. You know like the hater phenomenon, dude has game, other dudes hate on him to tear the man down. Even though other dudes may have perfectly happy life.

the score is arbitrarily decided metal, kills, penis size, it's worth is only what the players see it to be. I don't care who has the most of what, I still might win because his fusion was too close to his facts etc. which is my point. the scoreboard can be an element of gameplay, personally me, I would rely more on scouting out which player is the most vulnerable and seeing who's econ I can hamstring the easiest. NOT who has the most of X on some scoreboard.
klapmongool
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Re: Leaderboard in FFA mode

Post by klapmongool »

smoth wrote:
Beherith wrote:Would you think it to be a good idea to display the ranked order of the total metal value of each player in FFA mode?
Should the player not see his own rank? Should it be updated constantly or just every minute?
He is asking what people would like to see in a score board.
Beherith wrote:Would this make it easier to gang up on the strongest player or would it help the strongest player more by telling him who is the weakest?
He is asking if there are possible psychological implications. You know like the hater phenomenon, dude has game, other dudes hate on him to tear the man down. Even though other dudes may have perfectly happy life.

the score is arbitrarily decided metal, kills, penis size, it's worth is only what the players see it to be. I don't care who has the most of what, I still might win because his fusion was too close to his facts etc. which is my point. the scoreboard can be an element of gameplay, personally me, I would rely more on scouting out which player is the most vulnerable and seeing who's econ I can hamstring the easiest. NOT who has the most of X on some scoreboard.
Yea, that could all be. Like it can now. Yet the extra information u get changes the way the game is played. Could be good, could be bad.

Edit: Let me rephrase that, it changes to way I play the game.
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smoth
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Re: Leaderboard in FFA mode

Post by smoth »

it can, what if it was just kills? what if it was an arbitrary score? What I think behe is looking for is some stats that would be fun to show "leading" players and maybe not betray too much.

obviously any information can be (mis)(ab)(andotherwise)used.. but the question is why not and what should it display.

Personaly I think it is neat but then again I don't find the LOL scoreboard a big factor even though I can see levels and kills.
klapmongool
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Re: Leaderboard in FFA mode

Post by klapmongool »

smoth wrote:it can, what if it was just kills? what if it was an arbitrary score? What I think behe is looking for is some stats that would be fun to show "leading" players and maybe not betray too much.

obviously any information can be (mis)(ab)(andotherwise)used.. but the question is why not and what should it display.

Personaly I think it is neat but then again I don't find the LOL scoreboard a big factor even though I can see levels and kills.
If you acknowledge that any information can affect the way people play the game but dont know HOW.. I would be very carefull in adding any information. Cos imho you cant steer people into some direction you prefer.

Or just experiment and see what people like. Just set up a couple of FFA autohosts with different modes (dont do it on 1 via voting) and see what user feedback u get and which is most popular over a x month period.

Perhaps start out with extremes like:

- actual m/e income per player
- number of kills per player + number of deaths
- m invested in units + invested in porc + invested in eco
- comm health/number of comms
etc
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smoth
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Re: Leaderboard in FFA mode

Post by smoth »

klapmongool wrote:If you acknowledge that any information can affect the way people play the game but dont know HOW.. I would be very carefull in adding any information. Cos imho you cant steer people into some direction you prefer.
I prefer the other school of thought, give the players the option and see how they *use it. Worse case people don't like it, BAM! make it a mod option.

honestly, what is wrong with just giving it to them, who knows they might like it?
klapmongool
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Re: Leaderboard in FFA mode

Post by klapmongool »

smoth wrote:
klapmongool wrote:If you acknowledge that any information can affect the way people play the game but dont know HOW.. I would be very carefull in adding any information. Cos imho you cant steer people into some direction you prefer.
I prefer the other school of thought, give the players the option and see how they *use it. Worse case people don't like it, BAM! make it a mod option.

honestly, what is wrong with just giving it to them, who knows they might like it?
I guess you didnt read the rest of my post then. :)
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smoth
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Re: Leaderboard in FFA mode

Post by smoth »

I didn't agree with the extremes or the collecting player opinions as it would give a random minority larger voice. I think that it is the content dev's responsibility to make sense of the random crap players say and put that into some sort of feature. Seldom do end users really know how to say what they want.
Google_Frog
Moderator
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Re: Leaderboard in FFA mode

Post by Google_Frog »

If information doesn't affect gameplay I suppose you can remove LOS.....

Anyway just make this a modoption. Problem solved.
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Niobium
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Re: Leaderboard in FFA mode

Post by Niobium »

The big thing missing here is the "Why?". What is the motivation for adding a leader board? Everyone's arguing over implementation details and what should/shouldn't be revealed but there's no discussion about what the goal of the leader board is.

Some people have just assumed the result would be people focusing on the strongest player, which is a good goal imo, but it's fairly easy to make a case for a leader board causing the exact opposite.

If the goal here is to have players focus on the strongest player/work together then why not implement a mechanic that directly seeks to achieve it?

For example; Maybe display the name of the player with the most economy and put a X% "bounty" on their units, the other players are then rewarded more for attacking that player than another player, and so the mechanic promotes players "ganging up" on the strongest player without requiring any explicit cooperation/communication (which would become more likely now that their goals are the same).

Don't take that idea too seriously, it's the first I thought of, it's just an example of starting with a goal and then implementing mechanics which work towards achieving it as opposed to "oh a leader board? That might have this effect, or it might have the exact opposite, let's put it in and see what we get".
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Johannes
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Re: Leaderboard in FFA mode

Post by Johannes »

smoth wrote:
Beherith wrote:Would you think it to be a good idea to display the ranked order of the total metal value of each player in FFA mode?
Should the player not see his own rank? Should it be updated constantly or just every minute?
He is asking what people would like to see in a score board.
Hmm, to me it looks like he's asking whether people would like to see the ranked order of the total metal value of each player.
Ares
Balanced Annihilation Developer
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Re: Leaderboard in FFA mode

Post by Ares »

I don't like this idea. I think players should have to earn their info the classic way. If they are too incompetant to scout and make a judgement on who is the biggest threat by themselves, they probably won't react appropriately to being given such information anyway.

Diplomacy works out fine in current ffas, preferably with everyone on voip, but even using text chat to stir up tensions works surprisingly well.

Increasing feasability of alliances on the fly and trading radar info etc sounds interesting though.
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smoth
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Re: Leaderboard in FFA mode

Post by smoth »

Google_Frog wrote:If information doesn't affect gameplay I suppose you can remove LOS.....

Anyway just make this a modoption. Problem solved.
Wow, just wow google.

yes because 1 piece of information is the same as seeing EVERYTHING A PLAYER HAS.

really blown out of proportion.
Last edited by smoth on 08 Feb 2012, 11:44, edited 1 time in total.
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smoth
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Re: Leaderboard in FFA mode

Post by smoth »

Ares wrote:I don't like this idea. I think players should have to earn their info the classic way. If they are too incompetent to scout and make a judgement on who is the biggest threat by themselves, they probably won't react appropriately to being given such information anyway.
biggest threat because they have the most metal? that seems silly.
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CarRepairer
Cursed Zero-K Developer
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Joined: 07 Nov 2007, 21:48

Re: Leaderboard in FFA mode

Post by CarRepairer »

Ares wrote:Increasing feasability of alliances on the fly
This has been in spring for several years now.
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Funkencool
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Re: Leaderboard in FFA mode

Post by Funkencool »

If its just rank with no values, and you yourself aren't on it; You would still never know who the best player is without colluding with another player. If you're C and you see A>B, you would have no idea because A>B>C or C>A>B or A>C>B. Therefore I'm all for it because it just adds another fun feature, but its not like it takes away all the mystery.

EDIT: I should say "The player with the most metal" not "best player". And you would also have no idea on the difference of metal amounts.
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