Zipper,Zeus,Maverick Vs Pyro,Can,Sumo t2 kbot fac comparison

Zipper,Zeus,Maverick Vs Pyro,Can,Sumo t2 kbot fac comparison

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Drac
Posts: 22
Joined: 26 Jun 2011, 16:00

Zipper,Zeus,Maverick Vs Pyro,Can,Sumo t2 kbot fac comparison

Post by Drac »

Arm imo just cant compete with core in this department

Maverick is horrible for the price for 2 zeus he easily beaten by any thinking opponent slow and paperlight and short range , zipper a double hp peewee for 4 times the cost , and zeus seems like the best of them but core has Can which is clearly a superior unit on top of that pyro and sumo both has their uses.

Fatboy,Sniper,Fido vs Morti,Dominator is more balanced and little map dependant which is better but core offers more versatility

+core freaker

Honestly arm dont offer much at t2 kbot and he can get fatboy with t2 veh so one less reason to build t2 kbot, so what do you think arm is not as bad as it looks ?
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sillynanny
Posts: 125
Joined: 20 Jun 2008, 14:26

Re: Zipper,Zeus,Maverick Vs Pyro,Can,Sumo t2 kbot fac comparison

Post by sillynanny »

Yes.

Adding the missing combat engineers would do a lot to even it out. That would be an Arm T2 KBot engineer e a Core T2 Vehicle engineer, which is also missing. In the old days we also didn't have T2 Kbot AAs.
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BaNa
Posts: 1561
Joined: 09 Sep 2007, 21:05

Re: Zipper,Zeus,Maverick Vs Pyro,Can,Sumo t2 kbot fac comparison

Post by BaNa »

Yeah arm has its troubles, but there are roles for the two units you dislike. Mav eats t1 when microed properly and there was a time when all ffa games ended in zipperspam. Mavvie could use a tad more hp and I recall zipper got a bit of a nerf recently, so it may have become less useful.

Fido is the big stinker imo, it still fails on so many levels that it hurts to watch people make them. Especially when you compare it to early mortyspam from core.

I would say zeus is allright in its place, it is more versatile than the can and can take a beating much better than the pyro.

In general, arm t2 requires more micro to work well, look at the vechs where you have the anni compared to the banisher/tremor for core, or the kbots where you have the more specialised mavvie-zipper-sniper team with zeus the only all-round soldier vs the can-pyro-morty crew that fares better in the hands of noobs.

tldr: dont use mavvies and zippers as general soldiers, they both have their well defined roles: mavvie to kite t1 units and zippers to raid
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dansan
Server Owner & Developer
Posts: 1195
Joined: 29 May 2010, 23:40

Re: Zipper,Zeus,Maverick Vs Pyro,Can,Sumo t2 kbot fac comparison

Post by dansan »

I always thought it was on purpose that ARM is stronger in the vehs dept. and CORE is stronger at bots. So arm has a t2-veh-engineer and core has a t2-bot-engineer...
Also arm units are more tactical and core units are more brute forceish.
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Johannes
Posts: 1265
Joined: 17 Sep 2010, 15:49

Re: Zipper,Zeus,Maverick Vs Pyro,Can,Sumo t2 kbot fac comparison

Post by Johannes »

BaNa wrote:Yeah arm has its troubles, but there are roles for the two units you dislike. Mav eats t1 when microed properly and there was a time when all ffa games ended in zipperspam. Mavvie could use a tad more hp and I recall zipper got a bit of a nerf recently, so it may have become less useful.

Fido is the big stinker imo, it still fails on so many levels that it hurts to watch people make them. Especially when you compare it to early mortyspam from core.
Maverikk is just too risky to use almost always I feel. If it works and you manage to keep it alive, it's still not that great a payoff compared to other things you couldve made. But it just might die before barely anything too, if the enemy conciously prioritises sniping it/them.

Fido isn't so bad though, nice dps for such a unit and kinda easy to stay out of harms way against mainly t1 army, but it can get outdated fast. It's still better and more reliable than Mav I feel.
Sure it can't really be compared to morty, but that's because morty is just ridiculously good. Fido is still a good addition to your t1 army.

Arm does get the short end of the stick in the comparison though, it just has less variety of units and lacks any really awesome units, at least in situations zippers aren't useful. When all other labs have some kinda uber units, like golis/crocs, panthers, or mortys.
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BaNa
Posts: 1561
Joined: 09 Sep 2007, 21:05

Re: Zipper,Zeus,Maverick Vs Pyro,Can,Sumo t2 kbot fac comparison

Post by BaNa »

I mostly agree with you, mav is a bit fragile. Fido got buffed since i played with it, happy to see people thinking it is useful, maybe my opinion on it is outdated. The thing about the mav is that it has VERY nice dps (300 dps with 1 shot per second is perfect for t1 killing, cause damage wont get wasted). As a comparison, fido and fatboy both have about 100 dps. If it was much bulkier it would be too good. It could use a slight hp buff tho.

Dont forget the sniper for arm t2 kbot, it can be devastating but its a bother to use normally.
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Ares
Posts: 315
Joined: 19 Mar 2011, 13:43

Re: Zipper,Zeus,Maverick Vs Pyro,Can,Sumo t2 kbot fac comparison

Post by Ares »

The arm sniper hard counters sumo + can. Throw in a jammer + spy kbot and you have an easy to micro, deadly hit-squad. Zeus is also amazing value.

I think the unit groups in the thread title are mis-representative to compare, as the roles are not interlinked enough - Core would obviously win in that fight. In the past I would have agreed that Core was advantaged with k-bots, but increasingly I am appreciating the strengths that Arm has to offer.

Pyro v zeus
Can, sumo v sniper
freaker v zipper
commando v maverick
morty v fido
dominator v fatboy

In my opinion it's only the maverick which I would never consider building. Also 3 bladewings seems more useful than 1 emp spider. Zipper is too expensive for what it is, but Core has nothing like it.
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Drac
Posts: 22
Joined: 26 Jun 2011, 16:00

Re: Zipper,Zeus,Maverick Vs Pyro,Can,Sumo t2 kbot fac comparison

Post by Drac »

Dont forget about t1

Peewee remains the best kbot arm can build while core pyro and Can easily beat them, also just found out yesterday pyro has a 1000dmg almost instant selfd

Pw>Zipper

Maverick is just a waste what would you pick 1 can or 1 maverick or maybe 2 zeus ?

Zeus might seems like it worth it but move half as fast as pw and of course do much less dps , if surronded by pw dies in blink of an eye while Can and the FAST Assoult Kbot alias Pyro survives easily

T1 aa kbot is better and faster

T1 fac has res bot

So my opinion

Useful units :

For Attack
Fido (btw fido real dps switched on is about 75-80, but on default it does 50 dps, perfect unit outrange everything t1 has to offer and fast, one real problem with it energy demanding to build it )

For Defense
Fatboy ( can be good for offense too and consul can build it near the frontline making it better unit then buying one in the t2 kbot factory )

If t2 def on frontline
Sniper ( this unit might seem awesome but can easily waste his real dps by shooting at units have less hp than 2500, like flea and also easily killed by flea too if left alone, my point is this is not a spam unit ,
teamgames i usually send two just in case if t2 def appear)

Other units that have their uses but limited
t2 builder - obvious reasons
Fark - unit sucks but can build radar kbot and radar jammer kbot
radar kbot
radar jammer kbot
crawling bomb - against seaguy ( btw core version has +40% more hp for the same cost)
pelican - i love this but never built then in t2 kbot factory only on sea with valiant , kind of sea panther

Short version :

T2 veh factory has BETTER fatboy since it can deploy it anywhere negating its awful speed, and few fatboys can kill t2 defenses too so the only unit remained is the Fido which is energy demanding with its 1:23 metal:energy ratio almost forcing you to have a mega windfarm of fusion first. Fatboy has 1:8 ratio making it easy to build with t1 eco.

Shorter version :

You dont want you core buddy going t2 when you are playing arm on only kbot map.

yea yea tldr
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Drac
Posts: 22
Joined: 26 Jun 2011, 16:00

Re: Zipper,Zeus,Maverick Vs Pyro,Can,Sumo t2 kbot fac comparison

Post by Drac »

Ares wrote:The arm sniper hard counters sumo + can. Throw in a jammer + spy kbot and you have an easy to micro, deadly hit-squad. Zeus is also amazing value.

I think the unit groups in the thread title are mis-representative to compare, as the roles are not interlinked enough - Core would obviously win in that fight. In the past I would have agreed that Core was advantaged with k-bots, but increasingly I am appreciating the strengths that Arm has to offer.

Pyro v zeus
Can, sumo v sniper
freaker v zipper
commando v maverick
morty v fido
dominator v fatboy

In my opinion it's only the maverick which I would never consider building. Also 3 bladewings seems more useful than 1 emp spider. Zipper is too expensive for what it is, but Core has nothing like it.
You will never face can and sumo spam , they are always providing cover for morties which can kill your snipers and he will start spamming cheap units if he sees you sniper if he is not doing it alredy. Morti is much more reliable than sniper for the job and moves faster, shoots over units , no weapon opening animation , very energy friendly and buildtime efficent to build. Also easy to res if dies.
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