Legality

[xman15user]

Okay, I'm going to be the legal-paranoiac here. XD

I'm just one of those guys, so I am really confused about
the legality of BA, etc.

I don't understand how this falls into the dangerous area of
copyright law, so could someone please explain that to me?

Secondly, if this thing is legally controversial, why do so many people
have it? Am I just being too paranoid?

Sorry for being that person, but I want to get this set straight before
I go anywhere near this.

Hopefully I don't offend anyone here, I just was looking for some answers.

Thanks!

[Wombat]

it got content that belongs to atari. some ppl are just afraid that atari will use its banhammer etc.

it was never 'welcomed' to wildly advertise it to prevent such actions. having ba on ur hdd hardly makes u thief tho, feel free to advertise ba to ur friends :D

[HeavyLancer]

BA uses models, textures, sound effects and in some cases unit scripts from the original TA (and the expansion packs). It also has some third party models (some with OTA textures) that were added into Uberhack and Absolute Annihilation (when it was a TA mod).

These bits of BA use the OTA IP, which in turn violates the copyright of OTA. This used to be owned by GT Interactive when Cavedog was part of them I think, which is now owned by Atari. Atari has done practically nothing with the IP (except releasing OTA on Impulse a while back), so they are probably just sitting on it.

This all means that BA is on shaky legal ground in theory, but it appears to be safe for the time being. TA is a 14 year old game, so if they haven't cared about it yet, they probably won't yet. The other thing protecting BA is that there is virtually no money to be had from pursuing a bunch of modders distributing modified OTA IP for free.

tl;dr it is safe, unless Atari gets anal-retentive.

[Wombat]

TA is a 14 year old game, so if they haven't cared about it yet, they probably won't yet.

funny thing is that for 'a while' atari didnt even know they own TA XD

in the end, its safe, dont worry, go play dsd.

[TheFatController]

My personal opinion on the matter has been that if you own a copy of OTA there is nothing illegal about using the game content to play BA and it falls within the open moddable spirit of the original game.

BA doesn't make any money so there's no financial interest in trying to shut down this community for the OTA owners, they would also be welcome to bundle BA as a free bonus installer with any OTA re-release they planned if they were shrewd.

[BaNa]

I agree with TFC, and I own multiple copies of the original game (I brought it twice and got it as a magazine addon like 2-3 times), so if you do not, feel free to pm me and i will write your name on the other cds. Should be enough for everyone.

[Ares]

My original TA disc exploded in my disc drive, to this day tiny fragments remain as a constant testament to its greatness.

If Atari were to investigate the impact of BA on their ownership, I believe they would be pleasantly surprised by the knock on effect of people enjoying BA and subsequently wanting to go back and try TA balance + campaigns. This is free publicity, and one of the few places which might actually get people interested in buying the original, as one of the last surviving testaments to its legacy.

Also, If Atari wanted to release a sequel to TA I don't think shutting down the remnants of their potential fan-base would do them any favours...

[AF]

While we'd like to think that big companies do whats best for their users AND what's most profitable to them, sadly history has proven this not to be the case.

Atari is likely avoiding the subject because if it offered any official statement it could endanger their claim to the TA IP, or backfire horribly, or force them to litigate and expend money.

On the upside, any Atari litigation can be counterargued against saying they gave up their IP by allowing the TA content to go quite blatantly widespread for such a very longtime with no action of any kind from Atari. Though any lawyers being paid the money Atari has can rip this apart regardless of its correctness anyway.

All of this will be pointless soon however. When BAR is ready, BA should be free of TA IP, and thus untouchable by Atari, unless Atari moves to kill the entire engine project.

[FLOZi]

Model and texture wise, yes, but what about sounds?

Or is that part of the remit of BAR?

[PicassoCT]

behe makes new modells anyway.. so on a moral greyzone, you moving from darkish shadows 38 towards the light that is 100.

Everything went better than expected

[xman15user]

Thanks for all the replies!

HeavyLancer: Thank you so much for explaining the situation in detail! NOW I know what's going on. I'm just one of those guys that everything happens to, so always shaky on this stuff. I should have realized, that since it's a free and open source (hang on, is it? with the whole TA deal...) game, it's automatically protected from a mod standpoint.

Wombat: LOLOL that's a fail on Atari's part XD XD XD I've never quite gotten if they're one of those big corporate guys that come down hard on legal issues. Probs not in regards to TA.

Controller: True, that's been the case with most mods and games. So basically, Spring ported this to a better graphical environment, but at the cost of legal issues?
BaNa: Thanks for the offer! I really appreciate it, and I'm sure other people reading this thread do as well.

Ares: LOL what happened to that disc?!
And true, it's not in their best interests to shut this down.

AF: What is the status of BR? I've found the post, and the last thread on it was in 2010. Is it stalled, or is it now just a time of production?
I have seen the lego models that are used to make these, and it looks fantastic.

To sum up, downloading BA won't be a problem in any way, shape or form?

Thanks again for the answers! I really appreciate this!

[Wombat]

What is the status of BR?

pretty advanced, but better dont sit in front of pc waiting for final version, it will take a while.

To sum up, downloading BA won't be a problem in any way, shape or form?

hell no. it makes u cool person actually.

[AF]

Last I heard BAR is on schedule, they're hoping for later this year but I cant say if thats accurate or not.

Your better off looking at their SVN or looking at the model replacements thread if you want to see progress.

[smoth]

None of these guys have the legal expertise to tell you it is 100% safe for you. Download it or not.

But I have the disc... And TA came with an Eula that someone violated to extract the content.

No companies do not like their content used in other games(see quake2 generations) some companies will c&d fan projects even if the content is hand generated(halo wars mod for cnc) ESP if it conflicts with an upcoming project(halowars(console only wtf))

Most of the risk comes for posting or hosting the files.

In the end the guv'ment can find a way to bust you if they want.

P.s. Your disk will shatter if the cd/DVDrom puts too much pressure on a cd to keep it steady for too high a spinning speed for read. It is on of the limitations of the medium

Tl;dr stop being a pussy. The community cannot legally advised you on anything.

[Ares]

Your disk will shatter if the cd/DVDrom puts too much pressure on a cd to keep it steady for too high a spinning speed for read. It is on of the limitations of the medium

And when you try to sellotape it back together things can go from bad to worse...

[Tim Blokdijk]

About the license thingy,.. Total Annihilation had a demo. You need to accept the following license to install it:

Code: Select all

Copyright*1997 Humongous Entertainment.
You may use, copy and distribute
this program only if you 
(1) include this notice on any copy 
and don't charge for any copy or 
distribution, 
(2) do not reverse engineer (except 
to the extent such cannot be prohibited), 
(3) agree that this program is provided 
on an "as is", no warranty basis and 
(4) agree that Humongous Entertainment 
has no liability (because the program 
is provided without charge).

After which you can find this "TADemo.hpi" on your system. It contains some content (models, sounds, etc..) that can be freely used, copied and distributed if you keep to those four points above.
The "do not reverse engineer" thing is troublesome but the license is also nice enough to point out that there are exceptions that can't be prohibited. You could argue that in the interest of interoperability you have a right to extract the content from it's original context. Content you already have the right to use, copy and distribute.
Modifying the content is where it all goes down the drain. The license doesn't mention it.. you can only use, copy and distribute. You are not given the right to modify it. Creating derivatives is something only the owner of the content can do or give permission for.

If I remember correctly you do not actually have to accept the TA license of the full game. But that's a very weak defence as you never get the right to use, copy and distribute.
Also the full TA game license is localized (can't do the "no comprendo" trick) and more explicitly restricts reverse engineering, distribution and modification.

tl;dr:
1. Drop the above license in your game (users don't have to accept it, you just need to include it).
2. Don't charge money for your game.
3. Rip the sound effects from the TA demo without making any alteration.
4. Claim "fair use" of this TA demo content within your game. (only applicable for people living in the USA)
5. Profit??

[AF]

A lot of the TA sound effects are not Atari IP, purely because they predate RTS games as a genre, and can be heard in hundreds of TV programs. They're far more likely to be BBC IP than Cavedog IP

e.g. Zeus weaponsfire

[PicassoCT]

God bless the piracy of the industry

[liamdawe]

Shouldn't BA Reloaded remove a lot of the worrys since the models are completely new?

[PicassoCT]

This should hold, until getting inspired gets a crime