7.4X Balance Change Reasoning - Page 7

7.4X Balance Change Reasoning

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Wombat
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Re: 7.4X Balance Change Reasoning

Post by Wombat »

why not just play it instead of this theorying
they call it math
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bibim
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Re: 7.4X Balance Change Reasoning

Post by bibim »

Nixa wrote:Those statistics are highly misrepresented. Not only does it not represent the majority of players (because 1v1 only requires 2 players)
It seems you didn't see the second graph.
And still, the first graph is also instructive, you just need to know what you are looking at, as described by the legend...
Nixa wrote:but it includes pw games of friends that have no intention of playing a 1v1 in a competitive way. Over the last 24 hours I would estimate 1 in 6 (sample selection of 4 observations) have been a competitive 1v1.
I don't understand, on one hand you want to balance for uncompetitive 8v8, but on the other hand you want to ignore uncompetitive 1v1s because they are uncompetitive...
Nixa wrote:And yes, ideally BA (the name) should be left at 7.31 and a new name selected.
But is it what is going to happen ?
Nixa wrote:Like I said, the ability to change BA early on to prevent the ability of 8v8+ to become viable would probably have lead to a larger community now. It didn't happen, so we are stuck with this reality.
I'm curious about what changes you suggest to make 8v8+ not "viable" ? I'm not sure balance changes would stop simcity players and great wall of china builders, as it seems they just enjoy playing this way...
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Johannes
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Re: 7.4X Balance Change Reasoning

Post by Johannes »

momfreeek wrote:i mean who cares about autoheal on a jeffy ffs?
someone who builds a jeffy?
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momfreeek
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Re: 7.4X Balance Change Reasoning

Post by momfreeek »

you trolling now?
Kixu wrote:The battles are much more fluid now. The hp regen is really awesome for t1, as before mostly units would be used until they died, as pulling out for repair required a large construction force close by to do in a reasonable amount of time. Now its an essential tactic and fun micro. It gives commander a much bigger role, as when it is supporting front line units and has taken heavy damage it only needs to sit out for 2 minutes before rejoining the fight full health. Really keeps the battle flowing rather than waves and pauses.
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Johannes
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Re: 7.4X Balance Change Reasoning

Post by Johannes »

No, jeffy regen does matter a bit.

Edit: And just playing without theorising doesn't do very much to see how the game is affected. If you just play like you always played, probably you won't notice much difference unless your units unexpectedly fail due to changes. Something like new autoregen, you probably won't notice it unless you think it through beforehand about how to best benefit from it.
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Nixa
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Re: 7.4X Balance Change Reasoning

Post by Nixa »

Exactly, put your speculation into practice and see the difference :-) then make up your mind whether it had a positive or negative effect (or as with most changes here, little change at all)
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Wombat
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Re: 7.4X Balance Change Reasoning

Post by Wombat »

what if ur speculations turn out to be truth ingame ? :} also its hard to test something that got removed, obviously.

jeffie idle heal matters when u send them forward, realise enemy base is too porced and hide them behind hill, waiting for some unprotected mex etc.

only good thing about new idle-heal time is when it starts imo.
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Nixa
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Re: 7.4X Balance Change Reasoning

Post by Nixa »

Wombat wrote:what if ur speculations turn out to be truth ingame ? :}
Then 8)
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Nixa
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Re: 7.4X Balance Change Reasoning

Post by Nixa »

Wooo double post..

Well actually I could make this post useful, you would be waiting over 2 mins for a badly damaged jeffy to be fully healed again :P
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Lolsquad_Steven
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Re: 7.4X Balance Change Reasoning

Post by Lolsquad_Steven »

Johannes wrote:No, jeffy regen does matter a bit.

Edit: And just playing without theorising doesn't do very much to see how the game is affected. If you just play like you always played, probably you won't notice much difference unless your units unexpectedly fail due to changes. Something like new autoregen, you probably won't notice it unless you think it through beforehand about how to best benefit from it.
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2010

Argumentative misdemeanor 4.
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momfreeek
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Re: 7.4X Balance Change Reasoning

Post by momfreeek »

Johannes wrote:Something like new autoregen, you probably won't notice it unless you think it through beforehand about how to best benefit from it.
Now you're theorising about theorising (playing the meta-meta game). Lets go back to what actually heppened (we just went through this discussion about autoheal so there is no need to theorise).

your theorising (the meta-game) predicted this;
Johannes wrote:For t1 units the difference between old and new hp regen is pretty small. Many even regen slower than they used to now.
Kixu played the game (the actual game; no meta) and reported big changes to the flow of the game (something way beyond the depth of your theorising even if you could get the basics right)
Johannes wrote:Hm, I was wrong
So again.. what use is your theorising without actually playing the game?
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Johannes
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Re: 7.4X Balance Change Reasoning

Post by Johannes »

So I got a number wrong at first, what does that have to do with the concept of pre-planning? The flow of the game doesn't change magically from a change like this unless someone actively adjusted the way they play to the changes.

And go read what metagame means or stop using the word.
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momfreeek
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Re: 7.4X Balance Change Reasoning

Post by momfreeek »

Johannes wrote:So I got a number wrong at first, what does that have to do with the concept of pre-planning?
pre-planning is done prior to playing. You have been judging the design of the game not making plans.

What other number might you have got wrong and why should anyone trust your judgement and predictions if you don't test them? Its all very well to discuss such things but don't pretend they hold authority.
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Johannes
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Re: 7.4X Balance Change Reasoning

Post by Johannes »

They should trust my predictions because I understand this game better than them. :regret:

What theorising of mine you have a problem with exactly though? You corrected me once, fair enough, since then I have only posted quick comparison of old vs new regen specifics, and an opinion, on the regen subject.
Why don't you go and attack Nios 1st post for all its untested theorising if theorising is such a horrible thing to do...
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momfreeek
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Re: 7.4X Balance Change Reasoning

Post by momfreeek »

Johannes wrote:They should trust my predictions because I understand this game better than them. :regret:
You understand the game as it was. Tell me, how did you come to understand it so well?
Johannes wrote:Why don't you go and attack Nios 1st post for all its untested theorising if theorising is such a horrible thing to do...
Nio is testing it..
Last edited by momfreeek on 29 May 2011, 05:31, edited 1 time in total.
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Johannes
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Re: 7.4X Balance Change Reasoning

Post by Johannes »

momfreeek wrote:Nio is testing it..
I'm confident he could've written that exact same post with just the changelog, without testing a single game. Whether he then goes to play the game or not, why would that affect the quality of the reasoning in his post? And I have played 7.4x if that makes you happy.

And remember it's 2 things to disagree with what exact effects a change will have, and disagree if even the goal of the change is desirable.
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momfreeek
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Re: 7.4X Balance Change Reasoning

Post by momfreeek »

no.. I mean he is testing it now. He hasn't finished judgement. He knows it needs actual testing and he's playing and watching games to see how the differences manifest.

You could help. But instead..
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scrotum
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Re: 7.4X Balance Change Reasoning

Post by scrotum »

i just looked over the log quickly, why dont we start sucking each others dicks?

t2 bombers are barely used anymore as it is, nevermind shorter runs with less damage.

and now noobs are mad about getting nuked. so we decrease anti nuke cost by 50% and stockpile unlimited? who is running this game, well the noobs obviously, they are nerfing the offensive power the units hardcore.

what else. don't even start with com napping. This is turning into a whole new (rotten) game. thanks retards, whoever took control of BA ought to be shot.

Felony 1.
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Wombat
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Re: 7.4X Balance Change Reasoning

Post by Wombat »

was nice to meet u lol
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scrotum
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Re: 7.4X Balance Change Reasoning

Post by scrotum »

lol... granted i know nothing about the history of BA and the only people I know are the ones that play the game

and i doubt those people would make stupid moves like this. behe, regret, these are more or less the only regular players, i have a hard time seeing how these decisions got made
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