Balanced Annihilation 7.42 - Page 7

Balanced Annihilation 7.42

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Wombat
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Joined: 15 Dec 2008, 15:53

Re: Balanced Annihilation 7.42

Post by Wombat » 28 May 2011, 17:25

Just because you don't see something doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
says the guy who keeps telling us we didnt try it...

yes we did, it was fun until t1.
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Ataman
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Re: Balanced Annihilation 7.42

Post by Ataman » 28 May 2011, 17:49

very_bad_soldier wrote:
Ataman wrote:I'm pretty sure everyone keeps playing 7.31 because 7.42 is horrible with ATI-Drivers. Yeah the changelog says something about fixed ATI-Issues, I don't see any fixes tbh.

By horrible I mean you can't even play 10 seconds without crashing. I got 3 guys with different ATI-Cards in my clan and all 3 aren't able to play the new version.
Thats due to an incompatibility in the mex snap widget. The fix didnt make it into the last release by accident. Disable the mex snap widget manually in the widget menu (F11) until the next release (hopefully tomorrow).
We found that out too, disabling Mex Snap made it possible to build a mex.
However, after they tried to build a solar panel as second building, they just crashed again.
After this experience we decided to stick to 7.31. End of story. I don't have an ATI card and they aren't interested in wasting their time to check every single widget.
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Wombat
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Re: Balanced Annihilation 7.42

Post by Wombat » 28 May 2011, 17:55

that widget makes automaticly mex in range for full income? ATI and no crash here :D
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Niobium
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Re: Balanced Annihilation 7.42

Post by Niobium » 28 May 2011, 19:45

Just noting that all the crashes* and bugs were fixed within 2 days of release, and the reason there hasn't been a 7.43 bugfix release yet is because we are waiting on Beherith to OK it.

* Mex snap crashing subset of ATI users, and bladewing LUPS effects occasionally crashing MT users.
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Tim-the-maniac
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Re: Balanced Annihilation 7.42

Post by Tim-the-maniac » 28 May 2011, 22:03

Not going to comment on the changes as I cant play at the moment, but who exactly is in charge of balancing?
A dev team is a good idea for modernizing and doing visual changes but balancing really needs one person in charge. Doesnt have to be the best player, AA was great fun even though Cadyr was far from pro :) But wont having a handful of semi-decent players balancing like it is now create the same kind of cluster fuck that CA was at the start (maybe still is)?
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Gota
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Re: Balanced Annihilation 7.42

Post by Gota » 28 May 2011, 22:56

Which good player was in charge of balancing CA? Saktoth? pffff
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smoth
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Re: Balanced Annihilation 7.42

Post by smoth » 28 May 2011, 23:37

Wombat wrote:
Just because you don't see something doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
says the guy who keeps telling us we didnt try it...

yes we did, it was fun until t1.
you tried it and went BAW THIS IS DIFFERENT I HATE.

not really what I call trying. I came on the day after release and NO ONE WAS PLAYING IT just bitching. Because a day is long enough to see changes but not enough to really see how it plays out beyond initial gut feelings. most of you didn't get past the stuff is different I hate it phase.
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Nixa
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Re: Balanced Annihilation 7.42

Post by Nixa » 29 May 2011, 00:37

I believe most of them didn't past the personal hate of Niobium tbqh. If TFC had made these changes I would imagine the reception would be quite different indeed :lol:
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TheFatController
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Re: Balanced Annihilation 7.42

Post by TheFatController » 29 May 2011, 00:43

:lol:
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albator
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Re: Balanced Annihilation 7.42

Post by albator » 29 May 2011, 00:50

Nixa wrote:I believe most of them didn't past the personal hate of Niobium tbqh. If TFC had made these changes I would imagine the reception would be quite different indeed :lol:
TFC would have consult players before releasing it as he always did...
So it would have been different yes.
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Nixa
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Re: Balanced Annihilation 7.42

Post by Nixa » 29 May 2011, 00:57

Or maybe just different people were consulted :o
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Regret
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Re: Balanced Annihilation 7.42

Post by Regret » 29 May 2011, 00:58

People were asking for a BA dev team for a long time, now they have it. And it's not what they expected. Or the dev team is the people that were asking for one? You decide. :regret:

At least we know that this was a false statement:
Beherith wrote:I will carry BA on in the spirit TFC kept it in.
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albator
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Re: Balanced Annihilation 7.42

Post by albator » 29 May 2011, 01:05

Nixa wrote:Or maybe just different people were consulted :o
nobium say all BA team member agreed with changes.

And they all denyed that, one by one, except behe that has not answer yet. So it is surely not the case.
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momfreeek
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Re: Balanced Annihilation 7.42

Post by momfreeek » 29 May 2011, 01:36

albator wrote:nobium say all BA team member agreed with changes.
quote?
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Nixa
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Re: Balanced Annihilation 7.42

Post by Nixa » 29 May 2011, 01:44

That's not true, I agree with most of the changes and believe they need more testing, VBS is in a similar boat. Beherith is taking the right approach and seeing how they play out. I am unsure of DKW or his opinions as communication is lacking atm - something we are working hard on trying to solve.

Simple truth is you can't expect people to work on optimizations and development etc and then absolutely rubbish them like this. You are truely horrible people if you choose to do so (even more than I thought). Over 75% of the changes to 7.42 were Nio's and a tiny proportion of those were balance related - well over 100 hours of his personal time.

I was watching a FFA match with last night and you and 8D last night and both of you were tearing Niobium to shreds calling him (and indirectly me etc) 8v8 DSD noobs. If you knew ANY of us at all you would realise we personally have little interest in the large game style of gameplay - if Niobium had his way the game would be based entirely on expansion and micro. We are however are realists, we understand that there are many different types of players that play BA. Variaty of players is seen as a bad thing on these forums for some reason.

So if you chose to rubbish Niobium don't expect him (or many of us) to listen to your opinions - especially if you just chose not to even give it a try. After all the "elitest's" effectively rule these forums now, anyone that disagrees with you are made to feel so uncomfortable they simply don't bother. Because of this it would be unwise to base "so called" balance solely on opinions from here as it has been done in the past. I can understand why it has been done - TFC has had little to to dev the mod let alone spend hours a day observing and gathering a wider range of opinions. Real life should take priority.

Note: I am not Niobium, nor do I share all his views and I am not anywhere near as talented. Don't treat us as the same person.
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TheFatController
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Re: Balanced Annihilation 7.42

Post by TheFatController » 29 May 2011, 03:49

Just for the record I didn't pass BA ownership for real life reasons, I still pretty much come home from work then Internet til bed like a baus every night.

My main reason was that I hadn't been playing BA as much and felt it was better if someone who was still an active player had the role, cause I was still getting feedback but had lost the confidence to say whether it reflected the community or not as I felt before (especially as *cough* certain people had decided to launch a forum campaign agaisnt me and my leadership of BA); Beherith is still active in the community and has always been a good voice of moderation for BA changes (definitely one of my top goto people on patches) and is also involved in the new model project which is gathering impressive momentum. I haven't ruled out wanting to play Spring again so asked to remain on the dev team and mainly I've been waiting for the next engine release which brings me on to my next point.

My secondary reason was that developing new enhancements in Spring is painful and frustrating, I had come up with a string of cool ideas and found them unimplementable due to missing features or requiring lots of hacky code, this was compounded because no engine dev's seem interested in acknowledging BA's existance other than 'what hardcoded TA thing can we break this patch'. I find it frustrating that it seems uncool to help BA in the Spring dev team and that big code changes are being undertaken for the benefit of small and sometimes hypothetical mods where as I had literally zero dialogue with any of the engine devs.
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thefirstdude
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Re: Balanced Annihilation 7.42

Post by thefirstdude » 29 May 2011, 06:40

I think that the new BA balance changes are good stop complaining. All we need is a bug fix release.
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very_bad_soldier
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Re: Balanced Annihilation 7.42

Post by very_bad_soldier » 29 May 2011, 11:40

I dont want to take part in discussing the changes in detail here but I do want to give my opinion.

Changes I definitely like:
-Samson nerf
-enemy com untransportable
-precision bombers
-all the behind-the-scenes changes

Changes I like the idea behind but the implementation needs tweaking:
-fighter nerf
-HLT nerf

Changes I am unsure about:
-EMP bomber removal
-Team base storage
-Bertha change
-Antinuke change

I still think that its hard to finally judge all those changes. It will take a time (days, weeks?) for players to adopt to these. At this point we can only speculate what will happen (which is legitimate ofc, what else can we do now?). I just feel we wont reach a consensus of any kind here.
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Yuri
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Re: Balanced Annihilation 7.42

Post by Yuri » 29 May 2011, 12:02

Some of my noobish notices:
-I really do appreciate the samson/slasher nerf. Now you actually can kill it.

-HLT nerf is really bad w/o any nerf on ARM Beamer.

-Fighters have less HP than scout planes? Thats really weird. Buff the ground AA if you want to kill the fighter spam. Otherwise it doesn't look right.

-Taking care of ANTI was good but... IMHO, it's now OP. I'd be for keeping the reduced E cost and reverting the stockpiling.

-The change from Metal Maker to Energy Convertor is confusing as hell :( Some really clear explanation wouldn't hurt anybody.

-Doomsday's opening animation is still broken xD
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ginekolog
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Re: Balanced Annihilation 7.42

Post by ginekolog » 29 May 2011, 12:24

very_bad_soldier wrote:I dont want to take part in discussing the changes in detail here but I do want to give my opinion.

Changes I definitely like:
-Samson nerf
-enemy com untransportable
-precision bombers
-all the behind-the-scenes changes

Changes I like the idea behind but the implementation needs tweaking:
-fighter nerf
-HLT nerf

Changes I am unsure about:
-EMP bomber removal
-Team base storage
-Bertha change
-Antinuke change

I still think that its hard to finally judge all those changes. It will take a time (days, weeks?) for players to adopt to these. At this point we can only speculate what will happen (which is legitimate ofc, what else can we do now?). I just feel we wont reach a consensus of any kind here.
big +1
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