Balanced Annihilation 7.31 - Page 4

Balanced Annihilation 7.31

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Aether_0001
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Re: Balanced Annihilation 7.31

Post by Aether_0001 » 29 Mar 2011, 06:26

I don't think you've seen a commando drop in front of a viper. You almost always have mobile units, and even if you don't, commando transes will usually fly near ground defense, allowing a fighter wall to drop them somewhere where you can take them down easily. Plus at the point your enemy has the econ to make commandos, you probably have the build power to make a viper fast when they come.
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Wombat
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Re: Balanced Annihilation 7.31

Post by Wombat » 29 Mar 2011, 07:41

im amazed.

nevermind
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Nixa
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Re: Balanced Annihilation 7.31

Post by Nixa » 29 Mar 2011, 08:39

Iz3 wrote:You will past so damn hours looking for bugs!
I would like to thank Niobium and Nixa for their massive contribution to BA by converting all the fbi's to much more localized and readable lua files, and for the numerous bug fixes they implemented in 7.30.

The hitsphere gadget removal increased all units hitspheres by 70%, blowing them out of proportion. Also I believe that mine layers had small range jammers for a reason - to allow mines that are being built to be radar invisible as well.

I wish to thank TheFatController for all of his hard work on maintaining BA wonderful game that it is, and for entrusting me to continue his work. I am extremely thankful for any contribution - improved widgets, gadgets, and any bug fixes - and will merge them into BA as soon as possible, because I plan to maintain a monthly update schedule.

Please report any bug reports, feedback or suggestions here...
FIX THE FUCKING SPAM LAG!
(and MT version too ;))
Can't, that would

a) cause major balance change
b) require actual effort
c) require less time reading rage posts about commando's and suggestions from players that are all talk but never actually do anything to help BA progress forward
d) all of the above

teh end
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Jazcash
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Re: Balanced Annihilation 7.31

Post by Jazcash » 29 Mar 2011, 11:26

Wombat and Aether just proved the exact reasoning for my argument for having a dedicated place to discuss balance in an orderly fashion. Thanks.

You really think devs want to go reading through that seething mess to aid their conclusion towards whether Commandos are balanced or not?
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Wombat
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Re: Balanced Annihilation 7.31

Post by Wombat » 29 Mar 2011, 11:31

i just asked to remove them, then he started to talk about emp launchers and anti, dont blame me :C also what u mean orderly fasion? there was no flaming ?

EDIT - where did restore button go? did i miss some ninja release ?
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Jonny5isalivetm
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Re: Balanced Annihilation 7.31

Post by Jonny5isalivetm » 29 Mar 2011, 13:10

This is great news Beh FTW !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Monthly updates sound real sweet and before there wasn't a schedule as such..

Thanks again to TFC for all your efforts over the past years tho, you did a excellent job.
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TheFatController
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Re: Balanced Annihilation 7.31

Post by TheFatController » 29 Mar 2011, 22:34

Congrats on the release Beherith, I've moved house and only just got the internet back but incase anyone had any doubts yes it's legitimate and I'm passing on the torch of BA. I had been meaning to for months but was looking for the right person to take ownership, thanks to Beherith for stepping up 8).

If anyone's interested here's all the changes I'd made since taking over from NOiZE:
http://pastebin.com/LwmpDiaD (plus a whole host of ninja changes of course)

I may be contributing to the project in future if I get back into Spring, however it'll be in the form of sending patches to Beherith which is how i'd prefer to work on it.

Now to Nixa: 90% the reason I never considered you for this handover was your constant forum rage against me and I'm not sure why you feel the need to continue it in this thread. If anyone wondered why NOiZE asked me (a pretty unknown player) to take over BA it was because I sent him patches and fixes via PM over a few weeks and showed an interest in constructive dialogue. Starting a forum campaign to try and discredit someone into doing what you want is no way to earn their trust :regret: anyhow, i'm happy Beherith has found some helpers in you and Nio.
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Pxtl
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Re: Balanced Annihilation 7.31

Post by Pxtl » 29 Mar 2011, 22:45

Still, even with Behe I'm worried about this barely-any-developers involved thing. Wouldn't it be nice to get a couple of the super-hardcore players into the project and give them SVN access to change the stats of units so they can control the balance? It seems sad that the most popular game on the Spring engine is usually stuck with a single steward working on it... although Behe seems to be truly taking it forward with real development.
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Jazcash
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Re: Balanced Annihilation 7.31

Post by Jazcash » 29 Mar 2011, 22:55

Pxtl wrote:Wouldn't it be nice to get a couple of the super-hardcore players into the project and give them SVN access to change the stats of units so they can control the balance?
Really not a good idea. I'm one of the most hardcore BA players out there and I wouldn't trust myself with such power. Still, I think I have reasonable suggestions and a good idea of balance so I'll aid the devs where possible. There should be a proper board of players and BA devs with a lobby channel and all sorts where issues are thoroughly discussed.
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oksnoop2
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Re: Balanced Annihilation 7.31

Post by oksnoop2 » 29 Mar 2011, 22:58

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Regret
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Re: Balanced Annihilation 7.31

Post by Regret » 29 Mar 2011, 23:00

Pxtl wrote:Still, even with Behe I'm worried about this barely-any-developers involved thing. Wouldn't it be nice to get a couple of the super-hardcore players into the project and give them SVN access to change the stats of units so they can control the balance? It seems sad that the most popular game on the Spring engine is usually stuck with a single steward working on it... although Behe seems to be truly taking it forward with real development.
Anyone is free to post patches and fixes, debate balance and post suggestions.

Fact remains that BA has remained the most popular game here by vast majority despite many years of competition with other games that employed many different development techniques.
Jazcash wrote:Really not a good idea. I'm one of the most hardcore BA players out there and I wouldn't trust myself with such power. Still, I think I have reasonable suggestions and a good idea of balance so I'll aid the devs where possible. There should be a proper board of players and BA devs with a lobby channel and all sorts where issues are thoroughly discussed.
There is #badev as far as I know. There is no merit in limiting discussion to a select few players. They may be the best at the game but there may be someone who does poorly ingame yet has brilliant input on certain matters.

Destructive feedback can be moderated away, if you want an extremely strict balance discussion thread just ask, I can delete all non-sense from such a thread if requested in the starting post.

If you're suggesting a voting system, mere votes serve no purpose even if with explanation. It results in popularity contests rather than logical deduction.
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Aether_0001
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Re: Balanced Annihilation 7.31

Post by Aether_0001 » 29 Mar 2011, 23:08

Wombat wrote:dont blame me :C
Only because you taunt.
dont say something is impossible jusr coz u cant do it
failed horribly then.
you are bad sir, becouse u cant do it lolz
I'm done.
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Nixa
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Re: Balanced Annihilation 7.31

Post by Nixa » 29 Mar 2011, 23:49

TheFatController wrote:Now to Nixa: 90% the reason I never considered you for this handover was your constant forum rage against me and I'm not sure why you feel the need to continue it in this thread. If anyone wondered why NOiZE asked me (a pretty unknown player) to take over BA it was because I sent him patches and fixes via PM over a few weeks and showed an interest in constructive dialogue. Starting a forum campaign to try and discredit someone into doing what you want is no way to earn their trust :regret: anyhow, i'm happy Beherith has found some helpers in you and Nio.
I've never wanted BA, I've only wanted progress, progress I felt (maybe too aggressively) wasn't/hasn't been happening for the last year or so.

If you were to ask me who I would think should take over BA, well I'd prefer a private group effort in regular contact. I know this will never happen, so in that case I think BA should be run by someone extremely fluent at coding (of which I am definitly not). Is Beherith up for that? well I don't know but I really hope so.

Now is probably the time move BA away from these forums. It's time to sit down without all this forum banter and start dissecting from actual games rather than opinions.

Anyway TFC the reason we never got along is because releasing a few hours work every 3 or 4 months didn't really go down well with my work ethics. It is the internet, and flaming on the internet is the in thing to do. And yeah, the addition of the commando (which would've taken you hours to do) didn't help the cause considering there were so so so many other more constructive things to be done :P
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Jazcash
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Re: Balanced Annihilation 7.31

Post by Jazcash » 30 Mar 2011, 00:02

Regret wrote: There is #badev as far as I know.
It's pretty darn empty. Atm, there's two people in there, and I'm one of them. Would be nice to get #ba and #badev used. I've set them to autojoin and I'd recommend anybody else wanting to communicate more fluently about BA to join them as well.
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SirArtturi
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Re: Balanced Annihilation 7.31

Post by SirArtturi » 30 Mar 2011, 11:26

Every now and then I find these your balance discussions awkward.

How you tend to see game flaws and bugs as major part of gameplay. Imo the fact that arm llt cant shoot over solar due to f'd up hitsphere is a bug, not a gameplay feature - therefore not a major gameplay issue.

That is called a 'pro' player change complex: Once a devoted gamer learns the game thoroughly, he sees all as a perfection. "No change needed, It's working for me."

But is it working for the rest?

I used to be like that: There was no other mods, BA was the one and only - perfect. Fortunately I woke up from my nightmare and realized that the game was full of bugs and flaws, ugly ass hell and moreover, stagnated.

I wanted to discuss about this but there was nobody listening, everybody had their heads in the grave.

Are you listening me now? Most probably not.

I still want to ask: What will you do about the "enemy commmander+transport=free nuke-issue" for example?

And dont tell me It's a major gameplay feature, It's a big bad flaw.
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Wombat
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Re: Balanced Annihilation 7.31

Post by Wombat » 30 Mar 2011, 12:07

SirArtturi wrote: I still want to ask: What will you do about the "enemy commmander+transport=free nuke-issue" for example?
reduce the range of insta'kill ! now someone 'whine' with me about that :(


i think poll worked pretty well @ llt shooting over solar. why not keep it ?
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triton
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Re: Balanced Annihilation 7.31

Post by triton » 30 Mar 2011, 13:31

One big issue that hadn't been discussed much is the fact that you can win a game by killing others guys cpu with major fighters/AK/flea/etc.. spam.

Spam is cool, MEGA spam is not.



Did people already thought about slowly increasing buildtime each time you make a unit that you already made just before.

Example :
Each time you spam a flea the buildtime is increased, objective is to not make things being much different if you make 20 or 30 flea but if you want to make 200 flea in 2 minutes you would have probs.
When you dont make flea buildtime slowly decrease to reach normal speed.



Another idea would be to make new factorys starting with a bonus of 50% less buildtime for first units, like this : first unit will get 50% buildtime reduction second one 40% then 30% then 20% then 10% then normal speed. Its an example mb 50% is too much.
Like this you could Rush a T2 lab to bring some specialized units in T1 fights. Maybe the bonus should not work with constructors...

Opinions?
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macbeth
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Re: Balanced Annihilation 7.31

Post by macbeth » 30 Mar 2011, 13:40

triton wrote: Opinions?
GENIUS !
I like the "malus" idea about spam a lot of the same kind of units.


Don't like the other idea.... Eco in BA is already extremely important... give a bonus to ppl who tech will decrease even more, the importance of microing units around the battlefield, in my opinion.
Last edited by macbeth on 30 Mar 2011, 13:43, edited 1 time in total.
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Jazcash
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Re: Balanced Annihilation 7.31

Post by Jazcash » 30 Mar 2011, 13:41

triton wrote: Example :
Each time you spam a flea the buildtime is increased, objective is to not make things being much different if you make 20 or 30 flea but if you want to make 200 flea in 2 minutes you would have probs.
When you dont make flea buildtime slowly decrease to reach normal speed.

Another idea would be to make new factorys starting with a bonus of 50% less buildtime for first units, like this : first unit will get 50% buildtime reduction second one 40% then 30% then 20% then 10% then normal speed. Its an example mb 50% is too much.
Like this you could Rush a T2 lab to bring some specialized units in T1 fights. Maybe the bonus should not work with constructors...

Opinions?
Neither of these suggestions sound good to me. This would be a huge change in the dynamics of BA. Computers get more powerful every day, it's only going to get easier for people to cope with these situations. Personally, I just do /luaui disable any time it gets really really laggy, fixes me up fine every time.
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triton
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Re: Balanced Annihilation 7.31

Post by triton » 30 Mar 2011, 13:47

Yes it would be a big change but maybe its good, imo big and good change means : a modoption :)
Worth more opinions...
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