Balanced Annihilation 7.31 - Page 10

Balanced Annihilation 7.31

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smoth
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Re: Balanced Annihilation 7.31

Post by smoth » 05 Apr 2011, 16:57

Pxtl wrote:This is BA. Bugs are features. Nano-shielding is totally intuitive and awesome.
I have seen it in gundam it is very frustrating, that is why I added a delay between each construction start.
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Yuri
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Re: Balanced Annihilation 7.31

Post by Yuri » 05 Apr 2011, 17:30

macbeth wrote: samson spam is really annoying...
+1 to this.
Samson used to be the AA missile truck. So at least making it shoot when standing still only would be nice.
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klapmongool
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Re: Balanced Annihilation 7.31

Post by klapmongool » 05 Apr 2011, 17:49

smoth wrote:By all means make a personal attack on the very people trying to help you
Not... dignifying... with... response...
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Wombat
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Re: Balanced Annihilation 7.31

Post by Wombat » 05 Apr 2011, 17:54

Yuri wrote: So at least making it shoot when standing still only would be nice.
said that couple of times ages ago, looks like wont gonna happen, sadly :c
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macbeth
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Re: Balanced Annihilation 7.31

Post by macbeth » 05 Apr 2011, 18:26

Wombat wrote:
Yuri wrote: So at least making it shoot when standing still only would be nice.
said that couple of times ages ago, looks like wont gonna happen, sadly :c
If the units cannot be changed an inderect nerf could be achieved increasing eco requirements... imho... on flat surface tanks aren't used anymore in public games.
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Pxtl
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Re: Balanced Annihilation 7.31

Post by Pxtl » 05 Apr 2011, 18:30

Yuri wrote:
macbeth wrote: samson spam is really annoying...
+1 to this.
Samson used to be the AA missile truck. So at least making it shoot when standing still only would be nice.
This approach is used in CA, and honestly I really dont' like it.

Samsons are fiddly to balance because they wear too many hats. AA, artillery, spotting, fire-support, etc. Either leave them alone or take away one or two of their roles and give it to another unit so they're less fiddly to balance.
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Yuri
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Re: Balanced Annihilation 7.31

Post by Yuri » 05 Apr 2011, 19:07

I'm a poor noob with noobish opinions.

But seeing the Samson spam all the time is just wrong. Properly microed Samsons + some LLT/HLT defense stuff in the back makes it a really super combo. Outranging is simple.

Btw have anyone seen the real AA ability of the Samson? :D
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Johannes
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Re: Balanced Annihilation 7.31

Post by Johannes » 05 Apr 2011, 22:43

If you're using your resources to making hlts and llts behind your samsons how are you supposed to ever advance against an opponent that has similar amount of money in mobile units only?

I like that samson as an aa unit is still more versatile than purely aa. So it isn't a total waste even if your enemy doesn't happen to make air, so it's more than just an rps element (like air/aa otherwise often is) in games where you realistically cannot scout a lot of the time.
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Pxtl
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Re: Balanced Annihilation 7.31

Post by Pxtl » 05 Apr 2011, 23:30

@Johannes - of course, I think a big problem with air is that it's too hard in the RPS space - it's either unstoppable or worthless, depending on the situation. The Samson helps soften that.

I would never want to see the samson lose it's ground/air targetting. I just think the unit is hard to balance because it crosses so many roles... if I was picking which role to gut (and I'm not - I think the things are moderately well-balanced as is) I would still keep that core functionality.

I'd probably cut the range down to be a hair below the LLT range, and take away its massive sight-range - then it's strictly a support-skirmisher and anti-air, not also an artillery/spotter vehicle. But the thing is moderately well-balanced now so there's no sense in smashing it up for no reason.
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HectorMeyer
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Re: Balanced Annihilation 7.31

Post by HectorMeyer » 06 Apr 2011, 02:41

Flash/Stumpy/Samson are excellently thought out and implemented unit concepts, interact nicely with each other, and are very well balanced.
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hoijui
Former Engine Dev
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Re: Balanced Annihilation 7.31

Post by hoijui » 07 Apr 2011, 14:26

BA 7.31 does not spawn commanders in spring master. to fix it, remove lines 72 and 73 in luarules/gadgets/init_game_spawn.lua. The concept of lineage does not exist anymore in master, and theres no real harm for the release version if you remove it now (other mods already did this).
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Beherith
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Re: Balanced Annihilation 7.31

Post by Beherith » 07 Apr 2011, 17:31

Thanks hoijui, committed.
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Wombat
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Re: Balanced Annihilation 7.31

Post by Wombat » 07 Apr 2011, 22:44

smart nanos dont work when nano is made on the map edge
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Hobo Joe
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Re: Balanced Annihilation 7.31

Post by Hobo Joe » 08 Apr 2011, 00:36

Floris wrote:I've got a suggestion to change the behavior of newly initiated buildings being shot at. Cause this behavior is being (ab)used a lot when it comes to:
- starting buzzsaws/vulcans to protect a base from incomming bertha fire.
- starting a llt in front of a com to protect it from incomming janus fire and then dgun those janusses.
- repeat starting metalstorage in front of a hlt to protect it from incomming (samson) fire.

So my point is: newly initiated buildings shouldn't block incomming fire at least till they are like 10...15 % build
This is a good suggestion, although rather than an arbitrary % completely, imo the best way would be that if the damage of the incoming projectile is greater than the health of the nanolathe building, have the nanolathe get destroyed and the projectile continue.

Floris wrote:Another suggestion is to lower the turn rate of bombers since bombers can just bomb without any consequences from ground aa if you have the bomber widget and queue a move command after the attack command. And I dont see a solution in increasing the range of ground aa.
This is a horrible idea. Don't make balance suggestions based on 8v8 DSD games.
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Wombat
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Re: Balanced Annihilation 7.31

Post by Wombat » 08 Apr 2011, 00:41

pssst, precision bomber solves all problems
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MiNiMi
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Re: Balanced Annihilation 7.31

Post by MiNiMi » 10 Apr 2011, 16:08

gimme my old fatboy back :evil:

u fucked my fatboy rush -->t1 trans --> rape front tactic :(
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Wombat
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Re: Balanced Annihilation 7.31

Post by Wombat » 10 Apr 2011, 16:11

i think golly needs buff
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MrCucumber
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Re: Balanced Annihilation 7.31

Post by MrCucumber » 24 Apr 2011, 04:15

I personally like being able to block shots with LLT's and Vulcans, it makes the game have some fun micro tactics.

Also make samsons/slashers only be able to shoot 180 degrees infront of them, it should easy the samson/slasher spam.
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Wombat
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Re: Balanced Annihilation 7.31

Post by Wombat » 29 Apr 2011, 03:44

there was no whining in a while so... HERE IT GOES

first of all, viper shooting out of range. its frustrating how it tries to shoot radar dot and projectile flies way out of its normal range and hits random stuff behind.

secondly, dragonfly could use tiny LOS buff. DF emping map is not cool at all, especially since last nerf.
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HectorMeyer
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Re: Balanced Annihilation 7.31

Post by HectorMeyer » 29 Apr 2011, 14:00

I always assumed that was cause because of radar "wobble". The Viper never misses a target when it's in in LOS.

The current wobble system is flawed in that it seems "static", i.e (precise, not e.g. bertha) projectiles always hit the exact same spot. This often leads to situations where e.g. artillery keeps firing at a spot forever doing zero damage, thus making it useless and never switching targets. Samsons and HLTs love eagerly hitting the same spot on the ground near the target again and again too. Imo a serious gameplay problem and artillery nerf. A quick solution (randomizing position of each shot) would have the problem that for for the dedicated microer it would be possible to calculate the exact position of the target, by "averaging" the position of all hits. A good solution might be to calculate a random position near the actual target once, and then randomize each shot around this position. That would realistically model the behaviour of an artillerist that calculates the target positon to the best of his knowledge, while being aware that there is a certain level of error in it.
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