BA dynamics (gamelength, techlevel(s), costs)

[scifi]

thats coz of com ends !

wombat by com ends you mean in bringing that experimental comends, that when a players com gets killed all of his stuff gets instant death. No mater if teamates have a commander or not.

Or the comends we have know, all of the teams coms gets dead everything blows up.

I assume the first, yeah it would fix a lot of problems, but it isnt ideal. losing your com can be to easy if yout trying to hold against waves of units.

i think blowing com for m is the core of the problem. this shouldnt be possible.

THIS!, since when did getting to tier 2 evolved blowing your most essencial unit for metal.

Just play smaller games. Gameplay quality declines after you have more than 5 players on a team in team games. Large games are just hard to balance, and it's easy to set them up so there are people in lonely spots teching/simcitying.

In 90% of large team games I either feel like I have let down my team, my team let me down, balance was too easy (ie noob enemy team), or I didn't do enough (push well into enemy territory, and then the techer behind you steals all kills). Or I get bothered by angry specs who are mad I didn't win hard enough (for real, lol).

THIS i agree.


I disagree that dsd keeps spring alive, its killing it .

[Wombat]

'some' time ago com ends was set as default everywhere (i mean player lose com and shit blows up) and games were 1000x better, lot of units and fighting.

losing com ? no compush, no tech, no combomb, no comdrop. look i solved all ba problems.

[triton]

Try to ban DSD one week by month if SpringRTS got leaders it's time for you to do something.
Or one Day/Week ^^

[Pxtl]

'some' time ago com ends was set as default everywhere (i mean player lose com and shit blows up) and games were 1000x better, lot of units and fighting.

losing com ? no compush, no tech, no combomb, no comdrop. look i solved all ba problems.

Comm-griefers won't be happy with that. How can they commdrop and commnap if people actually have to keep their comms safe? And the techers would rage.

I still say the best solution is to play team-dsd with a CA-style comm.

[knorke]

if DSD disappeared, a new map would be chosen to be the new DSD.
Tabula, Surpreme Islands, Altored Divide, one of those maybe.

killing/keeping alive spring blabla the problem is that there seem to be people who would like to play 1v1 to 3v3 but its hard to arrange games.
So what can be done to make this easier?
#clans channel worked for some days but then died.

[nightcold]

if DSD disappeared, a new map would be chosen to be the new DSD.
Tabula, Surpreme Islands, Altored Divide, one of those maybe.

killing/keeping alive spring blabla the problem is that there seem to be people who would like to play 1v1 to 3v3 but its hard to arrange games.
So what can be done to make this easier?
#clans channel worked for some days but then died.

if you want more people to play 1v1, try makeing a 1v1 ranker...and make the rank list one of the tabs in sl/zk

a dsd ban might work(if the replacement host uses a varied curculation of maps)....it will never happen...all most all of the host owners love dsd

i also think that most people hate late game/ba's exponentially growing tec-economy system....that is y smaller games is more fun....y not make getting more adv structures less effective...the reason i hate t3 is becasue it creats a huge gap in firepower compared to the other 2 t's(i dont like that)

energy and mm is so effective that it replaces late game econ(not just encourages that play to just stay in the base, but if someone dose not stay in thier base the whole time his team loses)

[luckywaldo7]

if you want more people to play 1v1, try makeing a 1v1 ranker

There is already the woefully under-used spring ladder:

http://ladder.springrts.com/

[Wombat]

people who would like to play 1v1 to 3v3 but its hard to arrange games.

lately i realised i got epic timezone. cant belive u ppl got such a big problem finding small games... played 3 today ! and no dsd since 4 days ! im clean !!!!

[Johannes]

if you want more people to play 1v1, try makeing a 1v1 ranker

There is already the woefully under-used spring ladder:

http://ladder.springrts.com/

I'm under the impression it doesn't work right now (not sure if just works badly or not at all), but BD is working on it again now.

And I haven't had problems finding games lately, but maybe I'm just lucky or something



And selfd-tech isn't that strong tactic really, taht you somehow "need" it even in 8v8 on DSD, it's just the thing that everyone is used to doing, so even DSD regulars on other spots try to play according to it.
Easy example of a different approach: whole team makes units, gets a combomber to target enemy compusher, secures this spot - bam you've got 5k (or 3,75 if one turned heap) to tek with, plus all the other wreckage lying around. Or if they don't compush how are they gonna stop all your shit?
But anything out of the usual rote is teh hard for DSD players so notihng different ever gets done.
Sure you can do the selfd bjuild, and you might win with it too, but it's not the only thing that can win. Its main good side is, that a lot of the teams econ is eventually stacked to one player. Which is a good thing if the other players suck.

Damn even walking into an enemy llts gives the same m for you as selfd, if you just can secure the spot. While killing those crucial first llts of the enemy.

[Pxtl]

Yeah, but that's more of a gamble. Blowing a comm near the enemy base in a large teamgame means you could see enemies coming out of the woodwork to claim the corpse. The thing with the commwreck-techers is that it's a safe strategy that doesn't have any variables besides "are we dead yet?". It requires no teamwork, no assessment of enemy positions or troop strengths, etc.

[albator]

BADSD is the only thing which KEEP spring alive.

I partially shared this feeling because:

- You dont need 1000 hours of game to challenge true veterans when u play DSD. IMO, that is why most of the poeple here feel frustrated because they go beaten 'so easily' by "noob" (goldstar), even those 'vet' have 5 times more XP. Number of noob matters more than number of good players in DSD so team with a low rank standard deviation usually wins.

I mean what do you expect ? If you make DSD players play small team games CCR-like map, it will be 100 freewin in a row for the non DSD players (players who are here on this forom arguing on all that DSD8vs8 threads.) In thoes game vet really can win games alone.

Do you really think they will play 100 loose in a row for fun ?

Problem doesnot comes from the DSD base players really. There is just a gap level between two kinds of players, and there is not 1000 way to deal with it. You can act by yourself and train them, ask them to play small game by advertising GOTA-like-style and hosting game

At the end, most of the so called: I-want-to-play-a-nonDSD-game players here are almost never connected trying to host. To give an exemple, Noone except GOTA (and Carp once) asked me to play small team game in the past 6 months ! If poeple complaining were spending more time trying to do the thing themselves rather than hopping lobby/autohost/balance change will fix that issue, it will never happen. This is the same reason why poeple are so not willing to ban the trolls: engine dev wants poeple to test, autohost owner want poeple to play on their host, mod dev wants poeple to play there mod to be the most popular.


Also I am not connected 24/7, but last year when they use to be a lot of small team game, I barely ever saw most of the poeple complaining DSD play, except carpjjo

[Wombat]

To give an exemple, Noone except GOTA (and Carp once) asked me to play small team game in the past 6 months

u fat liar, i asked u so many times to call mars (not to mention 1v1 for a week, which u didnt want to play for 'some' reason)

and i agree with 'talk-much-do-nothing' nubs.

[Pxtl]

Yup. Fundamnetally, n00b-DSD games let newbies *play* instead of die quickly, repeatedly in 1v1s, or get bumped out quickly in an FFA or a less-safe teamgame and either let down the team or spend a long time as a spectator. Either way, spend a lot of time waiting for the next game.

Any game with a longish gametime and substantial investments that you get to see destroyed are fundamentally disheartening because of this.

Really, there are ways to mitigate the problem slightly (like DSD or a huge community for matchmaking like the Blizzard games have) but ultimately it's part of the genre.

[Senna]

Well dunno why u all talk about "noobs" at dsd, i think this was before, because the ones who keeps playing dsd for all day are not really noobs,
usually noobs get front and die, if a noob get a tech spot everyone will blame him:


and talking about dsd, u have my point, dsd is very good map maybe one of best made, its pretty balanced, u can tech,porc,be agressive, go vehicles on south, kbots on north, and plenty of stuff wich makes unknow results, till <10 mins game, after that techers got some things to do if not they can die making all the whole team dieing, but its ok 10 min u need to kill enemy fornt before 10 min and then get the techers, its like a mission:

Playing ba dsd 3 4 games its ok but playing ba on dsd 3000 times dunno but i get Tired cuz its always the same

[albator]

To give an exemple, Noone except GOTA (and Carp once) asked me to play small team game in the past 6 months

u fat liar, i asked u so many times to call mars (not to mention 1v1 for a week, which u didnt want to play for 'some' reason)

and i agree with 'talk-much-do-nothing' nubs.

true: you called me to play 1v1, But i dont play them casue I jsut dont like it.

About MARS, they all left spring for LOL becaue of Triton.

You cannot call me liar for not doing what I cannot (MARS is dead) but I can call u liar for lying about me lying :D

[Senna]

on First times i pretty loved ba dsd, and tell me who dont:)?

[Wombat]

mars didnt die last week, so keep talking.

senna is right, sadly :c tbh i cant remind myself any other game with so much love for 1 map. maybe spring is tard magnet, for ppl with different definition of 'playing'.

[MrCucumber]

At the end, most of the so called: I-want-to-play-a-nonDSD-game players here are almost never connected trying to host. To give an exemple, Noone except GOTA (and Carp once) asked me to play small team game in the past 6 months ! If poeple complaining were spending more time trying to do the thing themselves rather than hopping lobby/autohost/balance change will fix that issue, it will never happen. This is the same reason why poeple are so not willing to ban the trolls: engine dev wants poeple to test, autohost owner want poeple to play on their host, mod dev wants poeple to play there mod to be the most popular.

I try to get small games to play all the time, and no one wants to play them due to DSD love. I decided that the next best thing would be to get a channel, and some small game lovers on it, so we can start such things. Albator, since you seem to like getting invited to small games, why not join the channel, and we can get some up. the Channel is #PaD. There are plenty of [fi] hosts that support small games. You said that no one is trying, but I have been invited to a few small games in the last 4 months, and we had great times. Sure I usually end up the best player there because most "good" players, even while complaining about the "DSD Cancer" do nothing about it.

Since most people in this thread seems to not like 8v8 DSD, why don't we all get together and have a great game on another map, and not 8v8? :D

[albator]

mars didnt die last week, so keep talking.

.

MARS dies 6 months ago, so keep talking :D

At the end, most of the so called: I-want-to-play-a-nonDSD-game players here are almost never connected trying to host. To give an exemple, Noone except GOTA (and Carp once) asked me to play small team game in the past 6 months ! If poeple complaining were spending more time trying to do the thing themselves rather than hopping lobby/autohost/balance change will fix that issue, it will never happen. This is the same reason why poeple are so not willing to ban the trolls: engine dev wants poeple to test, autohost owner want poeple to play on their host, mod dev wants poeple to play there mod to be the most popular.

I try to get small games to play all the time, and no one wants to play them due to DSD love. I decided that the next best thing would be to get a channel, and some small game lovers on it, so we can start such things. Albator, since you seem to like getting invited to small games, why not join the channel, and we can get some up. the Channel is #PaD. There are plenty of [fi] hosts that support small games. You said that no one is trying, but I have been invited to a few small games in the last 4 months, and we had great times. Sure I usually end up the best player there because most "good" players, even while complaining about the "DSD Cancer" do nothing about it.

Since most people in this thread seems to not like 8v8 DSD, why don't we all get together and have a great game on another map, and not 8v8? :D

I like DSD :)

I like DSD XvX | X=[1;4] more

[MrCucumber]

DSD 5v5 is also plenty of fun :D

haha right now I am getting ringed because I am in a 4v4 DSD on a TERA host! People said it was impossible to have lower then 8v8 on TERA hosts but it can happen once in a while!