moho exploiter too weak?

[Hackfresser]

for the cost of a moho exploiter, you get about 1 moho mine and 2 vipers. thats about the same dps, and a lot more hp: moho exploiter is 2000, moho mine is 3500, viper is about 2700.
so whats the point of the exploiter? build time is a bit lower, but not that much...
anyway, why does the exploiter have less hp then the mine? did i miss something here?

[Niobium]

Moho exploiter has a hidden 70% damage reduction when open and armored, giving it an effective 6.7k HP (Aren't massive hidden bonuses great?), but of course this doesn't help when it is outranged.

Other problems are the long time to open; not being a decoy of the real moho stat-wise, which makes them easily differentiable; and the cost, which is far too high relative to other options like viper or even doomsday for slightly more.

It'd be nice if they were just open all the time, with their damage reduction removed and HP adjusted accordingly. In fact as it is there is a even a widget in BA which sole function is to fix opening/closing problems with the unit.

[Pxtl]

The idea of the moho exploiter was that it was supposed to be a "surprise" unit, which is why its true damage capacity is hidden - it's tougher than a moho mine.... but was *supposed* to have the same amount of health points as a moho mine, with secret power.

Obviously somebody buffed a moho mine and forgot to tweak the moho exploiter.

[Wombat]

yea! more core buffin !

its pretty epic as it is for me.

[Hackfresser]

im also unsure whether the normal exploiter is really worth it, since for the same cost you get a normal mex and a double llt which has twice the firepower and is also tougher.
ok, here the difference in build time is rather huge, so the unit has its use, but still, a little more cost effectiveness wouldnt hurt

[Wombat]

core player wouldnt hurt for sure.

[Sucky_Lord]

you clearly havent seen a moho exploiter in action

[Wombat]

i clearly did.

http://modinfo.adune.nl/?act=edit&side= ... &MOD=ba719
http://modinfo.adune.nl/?act=edit&side= ... &MOD=ba719

damage is epic enough to keep moho exploiter as it is.

i suggest u dont start to argue or u gonna say something terribly stupid again.

[HectorMeyer]

really strange balance suggestions here recently.

tacnuke, t2 torpedo launcher and moho exploiter are all not underpowered at all. (but i would agree with tacnuke up vs emp launcher which is probably most op unit right now)

the moho exploiter is - except maybe for range - almost as good as the doomsday machine. it almost costs the same though, also. it often makes more sense to build a regular moho mine + doomsday instead. i would suggest to make moho exploiter weaker + cheaper, and only buildable on metal spots, consuming loads of metal while firing or something like that

there is a very similar problem with the toaster and ambusher, just look at their cost/performance compared to doomsday machine.

making doomsday machine more expensive (why is it so much cheaper than annihilator?) wouldn't also hurt balance i guess..

[Sucky_Lord]

i wasnt even talking to you wombat lmao, pipe down kiddo..

[Johannes]

Present how buffing it, would change the game for the better. "I would use it more" is not sufficient.

[Hackfresser]

http://modinfo.adune.nl/?act=edit&side= ... &MOD=ba719
http://modinfo.adune.nl/?act=edit&side= ... &MOD=ba719

damage is epic enough to keep moho exploiter as it is.

you are aware that the dps stated on this site is not true?
the individual missiles do 375 as a burst of 5 during a duration of 1 sec, thats where the 1875 comes from. but actually it has some sort of reload which greatly recudes its damage output. actual total dps for both weapons is more like 900

i suggest u dont start to argue or u gonna say something terribly stupid again.

what?

[Wombat]

not u.

show me other numbers and ill agree with u.

[Niobium]

you are aware that the dps stated on this site is not true?
the individual missiles do 375 as a burst of 5 during a duration of 1 sec, thats where the 1875 comes from. but actually it has some sort of reload which greatly recudes its damage output. actual total dps for both weapons is more like 900

Alright, fact time.
The moho exploiter weapon and script are an absolute mess. It fires 4, 5, or 6 missiles in a burst with 0.2 seconds between missiles, reloading 5.0 to 5.25 seconds after the last missile. Meaning it fires every 5.8 to 6.45 seconds.

Most of the time it fires 5 missiles for 1875 damage total, with an average reload of 6.125, giving a DPS of 306. Thus the total DPS of the exploiter is 806 pointblank to 556 at max range (650). For comparison the viper has a DPS of 412 at any range (up to 730), and the doomsday varies from 1500 pointblank -> 820 at exploiter range -> 415 at max range (950).

TL;DR: Moho exploiter missiles are inconsistent, weak, and short-ranged. Cost-wise you are better off doing a normal moho and vipers or doomsday instead, which have longer ranges and higher DPS.

[ginekolog]

I agree, moho exploiters are not worth it. They needed at least 20% cost down to be considered. + Give them 7k hp in all states, not only in opend form.

[Wombat]

wooo sounds like epic idea. lets buff some porc. buffing hlt is also good idea. and missle trucks. and ofc nerf arm. i like how drones, levelers, ddm and armed mex prevent enemy from raiding. ba reaches totally new level of awesomness.

[Pxtl]

Honestly, the MohoExploiter is such a short-ranged unit I'd never worry about it being OP. As long as there's tremors and penetrators, I don't worry about immobile short-ranged non-popups being over-powered.

My problem with a high-powered MohoExploiter is much simpler: if the thing becomes comparable to a Viper or a DDM for defense, you'd see people start building them as defenses, not just as extractors. Think, people spamming MohoExploiters instead of Vipers.

That would just be so freaking stupid.

[Niobium]

My problem with a high-powered MohoExploiter is much simpler: if the thing becomes comparable to a Viper or a DDM for defense, you'd see people start building them as defenses, not just as extractors. Think, people spamming MohoExploiters instead of Vipers

It only fires when its built on metal, so in a way it would be better to have exploiter-type units as the primary defense, given they can only be built in limited numbers and in specific places.

[Hackfresser]

wooo sounds like epic idea. lets buff some porc. buffing hlt is also good idea. and missle trucks. and ofc nerf arm. i like how drones, levelers, ddm and armed mex prevent enemy from raiding. ba reaches totally new level of awesomness.

i dont see any of the problems you mention, apart from the drones. will open another thread about that.

[Wombat]

erm, what for :c