Eternal Annihilation (v1.04)

[Yuri]

Nice changes so far.

Samson epic range battles are gay. Thuds/Hammers needed this hp. T2 bombers nerf is kinda nice. Doomsday accuracy too.

Arm Annihilator weapon damage increased (9000->12000)

Was this rly necessary? Anni is pretty already very powerful with current longer beam.

Needs to be tested :)

[TheFatController]

Arm Annihilator weapon damage increased (9000->12000)

Was this rly necessary? Anni is pretty already very powerful with current longer beam.

Needs to be tested :)

It's to match up with the HP increase on t3, also it only does a fraction of its damage at max range which increases as units get closer, but yeah that one can be reviewed.

[Saktoth]

The general direction is to make attacks vs an EMP guarded enemy a bit more effective, tho the actual impact ingame is quite small..

By this you mean, once a unit is EMP'd, it is easier to keep it EMP'd?

Wouldnt it be more sensible, then, to increase EMP damage vs EMP'd targets, not vs stopped targets?

[Jazcash]

Arm Annihilator weapon damage increased (9000->12000)

Was this rly necessary? Anni is pretty already very powerful with current longer beam.

Needs to be tested :)

It's to match up with the HP increase on t3, also it only does a fraction of its damage at max range which increases as units get closer, but yeah that one can be reviewed.

Decrease the range a little, keep damage at 12000, maybe decrease reload time a little too if you want to make up for decreased range.

[albator]

4000 metal for a defence that can be killed by flea spam. Doom stay cost half and sustain spam. Ofc the range of the main gun is lower. however, you would better build a vandard than an annihilator. it has more range, more hp, all terran ability, riot effect, and can move, onlu cost 3000, dont require so much E to fire..... I dont think I shoud say more about why I feel that the balance you talking about does not make any sense to me.

[Jazcash]

4000 metal for a defence that can be killed by flea spam. Doom stay cost half and sustain spam. Ofc the range of the main gun is lower. however, you would better build a vandard than an annihilator. it has more range, more hp, all terran ability, riot effect, and can move, onlu cost 3000, dont require so much E to fire..... I dont think I shoud say more about why I feel that the balance you talking about does not make any sense to me.

Rethinking the whole concept of the annihilator, I partially agree with this. The fact that the Doomsday is much more awesome in almost every respect (looks, spam control, reload times, weapons, cost, and the HP is pretty much infinite when it's shut).

The Annihilator is useful for dealing big damage to units with large HP, but most the time, the maximum potential of this unit is only realised when the enemy sends T3 one by one or cluster lots of T2 units together. This doesn't happen very often at all and so in most cases, it just ends up taking out fairly cheap units anyway. It would make sense for it to have some extra measure of spam control, if not buffing the annihilating beam itself.

[Pxtl]

I just noticed the FARK buff. What's teh intended role for the new Fark? Do they still chain-explode?

on anni vs doom:
It's not like you have to build just 1 unit. The annihilator gives you something Core doesn't have - a long-ranged dragon-slayer. The Doomsday is a good defense, but pitbulls and vipers give you a similarly good defense. I'd take an annihilator protected by smaller defenses over a similarly-equipped Doomsday any day.

[albator]

Noone complain about blades except jazz anyway. Even Johan who sometime is playing arm too much is not complaining about that. There is a reason. To make EMP effective, you need good micro skill. Cause you can loose all your blade realy fast: one AA shoot and you loose 60 metal and 1K energy.
Blade did not need to be weaked at all: you actually see very few poeple using them. Poeple should focus on other balance issue than that. It is like if I was starting to complain forever about janus being able to fire above wreak in all thje threads whereas riot cannot.

Just revearse blades as they used to be

I know many people who complain about Blades. And it's the opposite of me sucking with them, I find them too easy. You have a giant army rushing at you, raiders, stumpys, flash, maybe even a few sams. I'm Core, wut 2 do? I know! Spam Blades in their dozens, easily EMP the whole army, kill them all with scouts.

Seriously, say what you like, Blades were OP, now they're not so bad. If this change is reverted I will assassinate Albator myself.

Go ahead :D
But first, try to kill a decent player at CCR , u core, the other arm, you will see how blades are the only way to prevent you to be raped by stumpy since they owned so much. However, even with blades, since a few AA are able to kill a large army of blades (one missile kill a blades : 60 metal and 1k E in a single shot !) for a really small cost, you will eventualy die. I made some 1vs1 againt 8D, playing core, blades didnot save me , they just postpone my death, cause poeple like 8D (he is just an exmple) actually does not play with only one unit. If you want to play stumpy spam only, go play starcraft of command and conquer. With the current states of blades, It is just much more efficient to spam more raider than blades than will have so much less efficiency.

Gonna tell a story. More thanone year from now, I started to spam every single game, blades with my second factory on any game I played. Since My playing style consists in reclaiming as much as possible so I can get the biggest army so I dotn have to rely on crappy allies to coordinnates attack, it was quite easy. After a while, I was reading thing like this when I was watching replay:
Alba ingame, may AA,he will mass spam blades. It remind me a little bit of how pople use to react about regret behaviour. Anyway, after a while I just stopped to make air factory as my second factory since poeple were finnally making some AA. What tell this story is simple: It is not becasue poeple have a bad playing style that you have to find solution such that even with a crappy playing style they can still win by building random unit. I really dont want BA to become a game like starcraft when only spam matter. You obviouly want it. You cannot denny that blades are really expensive and extremely weak. If ennemy make blades, you have time to make fighter. If you want to make a second factory to spam more stumpy, this is your choice, dont dont blame the mod cause the "fuckin' balance does not allow me to win with only stumpies". (This is btw, one of the reason why there are more playing playing arm than core btw). I am only able to use blades efficently since I have the autogroup widet btw, before that, my micro skill were too low to make that efficient and I used to play arm casue it was much more easy to spam a mix of 5 stumpy 1 samson

[Hobo Joe]

The last thing anni needs is a range nerf, that's one of it's two strengths and taking that away would ruin the unit. imo, it needs a range buff, a damage buff(which it got) lower costs, and increased reload times, that will focus its strengths more and separate it from the DDM, while keeping it reasonably expensive. It's a really pricey unit, and in BA at its current state it's rarely cost effective, especially when compared to the DDM, simply because its damage, although nice, is not enough to justify its cost when considering its damage and reload times.


With longer range, reload time, and higher damage, it would be worthwhile to build and valuable enough to put on hold fire and micro the shots, which I think would put it where it needs to be.



Still completely agree with albator on blades, they are extremely weak and vs any decent player who builds a good unit mix they will get shot down quickly and without a problem. Anyone who thinks they're OP is just playing vs single unit spam players.

[TheFatController]

Thinking of trialling this change:
- Commanders now gain a +0.5 bonus to metalmake every 5 minutes (starting from existing 1.5)

Not intended as an ultimate solution to everything but I think it would add a little incentive to keep your commander alive, resurrected commanders would start from 1.5 again (or 0?)

Thoughts?

[Regret]

Thinking of trialling this change:
- Commanders now gain a +0.5 bonus to metalmake every 5 minutes (starting from existing 1.5)

Not intended as an ultimate solution to everything but I think it would add a little incentive to keep your commander alive, resurrected commanders would start from 1.5 again (or 0?)

Thoughts?

5 minutes is a very long time. :|

[Hobo Joe]

Thinking of trialling this change:
- Commanders now gain a +0.5 bonus to metalmake every 5 minutes (starting from existing 1.5)

Not intended as an ultimate solution to everything but I think it would add a little incentive to keep your commander alive, resurrected commanders would start from 1.5 again (or 0?)

Thoughts?

At 20 minutes the com would generate an extra 900 metal. Not that much, I'm not sure how much it would change, because if you're trying to discourage self-d people can still get 2500 right off the bat and get 3 advanced fusions up in that time, and easily have produced 30k metal.

An extra 900 metal at 20 minutes won't stop any techers.

[Nixa]

Try implimenting a upgrade system maybe? ~1000 metal - can build moho mexes, slightly stronger defense (maybe hlt), gives more metal and metal store (5 metal and 3000 store), and more energy. Longer dgun, more hp, etc etc. Loads of possibility. Would benefit both front and back players, as well as smaller games.

Might even help bridge the gap between t1 and t2

[Jazcash]

Noone complain about blades except jazz anyway. Even Johan who sometime is playing arm too much is not complaining about that. There is a reason. To make EMP effective, you need good micro skill. Cause you can loose all your blade realy fast: one AA shoot and you loose 60 metal and 1K energy.
Blade did not need to be weaked at all: you actually see very few poeple using them. Poeple should focus on other balance issue than that. It is like if I was starting to complain forever about janus being able to fire above wreak in all thje threads whereas riot cannot.

Just revearse blades as they used to be

I know many people who complain about Blades. And it's the opposite of me sucking with them, I find them too easy. You have a giant army rushing at you, raiders, stumpys, flash, maybe even a few sams. I'm Core, wut 2 do? I know! Spam Blades in their dozens, easily EMP the whole army, kill them all with scouts.

Seriously, say what you like, Blades were OP, now they're not so bad. If this change is reverted I will assassinate Albator myself.

Go ahead :D
But first, try to kill a decent player at CCR , u core, the other arm, you will see how blades are the only way to prevent you to be raped by stumpy since they owned so much. However, even with blades, since a few AA are able to kill a large army of blades (one missile kill a blades : 60 metal and 1k E in a single shot !) for a really small cost, you will eventualy die. I made some 1vs1 againt 8D, playing core, blades didnot save me , they just postpone my death, cause poeple like 8D (he is just an exmple) actually does not play with only one unit. If you want to play stumpy spam only, go play starcraft of command and conquer. With the current states of blades, It is just much more efficient to spam more raider than blades than will have so much less efficiency.

Gonna tell a story. More thanone year from now, I started to spam every single game, blades with my second factory on any game I played. Since My playing style consists in reclaiming as much as possible so I can get the biggest army so I dotn have to rely on crappy allies to coordinnates attack, it was quite easy. After a while, I was reading thing like this when I was watching replay:
Alba ingame, may AA,he will mass spam blades. It remind me a little bit of how pople use to react about regret behaviour. Anyway, after a while I just stopped to make air factory as my second factory since poeple were finnally making some AA. What tell this story is simple: It is not becasue poeple have a bad playing style that you have to find solution such that even with a crappy playing style they can still win by building random unit. I really dont want BA to become a game like starcraft when only spam matter. You obviouly want it. You cannot denny that blades are really expensive and extremely weak. If ennemy make blades, you have time to make fighter. If you want to make a second factory to spam more stumpy, this is your choice, dont dont blame the mod cause the "fuckin' balance does not allow me to win with only stumpies". (This is btw, one of the reason why there are more playing playing arm than core btw). I am only able to use blades efficently since I have the autogroup widet btw, before that, my micro skill were too low to make that efficient and I used to play arm casue it was much more easy to spam a mix of 5 stumpy 1 samson

Your whole post is a bit of a waste because ofc you don't rush blade spam in 1v1. No wonder you got pwned doing so. I never make blades in 1v1, simply because at that point, I have enough metal to reclaim all my labs and rush a liche or bombers.

But first, try to kill a decent player at CCR , u core, the other arm, you will see how blades are the only way to prevent you to be raped by stumpy since they owned so much.

Shows how much you know about 1v1.

You cannot denny that blades are really expensive

Oh but I can.

[Hobo Joe]

Your whole post is a bit of a waste because ofc you don't rush blade spam in 1v1. No wonder you got pwned doing so. I never make blades in 1v1, simply because at that point, I have enough metal to reclaim all my labs and rush a liche or bombers.

Shows how much you know about 1v1.

1v1 albator and post the demo please

[Nixa]

Another thread bites the dust...

[TheFatController]

1v1 albator and post the demo please

Not that I currently have made up my mind on Bladewings (the fix in 1.03 needs to be tested first), but that's a pretty flawed way of proving a point, shame on you :p

[Hobo Joe]

1v1 albator and post the demo please

Not that I currently have made up my mind on Bladewings (the fix in 1.03 needs to be tested first), but that's a pretty flawed way of proving a point, shame on you :p

I was responding to him saying that albator knows nothing about 1v1, I already posted my arguments about blades, and agreed with albators points.

[HectorMeyer]

(Anni) needs a range buff, a damage buff(which it got) lower costs, and increased reload times

+1

Thinking of trialling this change:
- Commanders now gain a +0.5 bonus to metalmake every 5 minutes (starting from existing 1.5)

I like this a lot. Of course it is no ultimate solution to selfding but it will buff front players vs techers, making them fall behind less during the course of the game.

maybe also give a gradual HP increase?

edit: some more random suggestions:

Doomsday Machine needs a cost increase.

Moho Exploiter needs to be cheaper and weaker. Right now its almost as good and expensive as a Doomsday Machine. Or keep it as strong, make it cheaper, but only possible to build on metal spots.

Toaster and Ambusher could be slightly cheaper too. Currently almost as expensive as Doomsday, much weaker, only advantage is slightly higher range.

[Hackfresser]

i dont like how rockos and hammers pretty much fill the same role in ba... ofc rockos are better vs llts, but thats pretty much the only difference in who-counters-what

there should be a point in mixing the two