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PeowPeow

Classic game design, maintained to please you...

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Nixa
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Post by Nixa » 05 Sep 2010, 09:37

Shutting this down yo XD
Last edited by Nixa on 13 Sep 2010, 13:09, edited 16 times in total.
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JohannesH
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Re: BA Improved (large team games side project)

Post by JohannesH » 05 Sep 2010, 11:22

Why do big team games need more promotion?
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Nixa
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Re: BA Improved (large team games side project)

Post by Nixa » 05 Sep 2010, 11:33

It's just the way spring is heading, after all you can now play what 20v20 or whatever. You can either stick with the fire or start using an oven.
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JohannesH
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Re: BA Improved (large team games side project)

Post by JohannesH » 05 Sep 2010, 11:46

Especially it will head that way if you ruin the gameplay for smaller games with random team 8v8-oriented changes...
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Wombat
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Re: BA Improved (large team games side project)

Post by Wombat » 05 Sep 2010, 11:52

u dont have to host small games using this version
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SirArtturi
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Re: BA Improved (large team games side project)

Post by SirArtturi » 05 Sep 2010, 12:06

You should have made a mutator. Downloading whole mod again just for few changes, especially if the changes are just for testing purposes, is just silly.

How Is this improved? Where are the new effects? New models? New graphics? Not to mention all the fundamnetal problems based on commander explosion and commander wrecks.

The changes you made, wont encourage people to fight instead of tech. You are just nerfing the solutions that usually leads to victory after exthausting porctech party.
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Jazcash
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Re: BA Improved (large team games side project)

Post by Jazcash » 05 Sep 2010, 12:12

For no gheyness in BA just disable T2.
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Nixa
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Re: BA Improved (large team games side project)

Post by Nixa » 05 Sep 2010, 12:20

Again, made for the average spring player not the pro... and I did mention it was orientated for larger games, but imho it won't ruin smaller games at all... or just do what wombat said.

And yes sorry, should've made mutator, I just don't like lots of files

And as for that comment about nerfing solutions that end games, the bombers are still just as effective at taking out a fusion or 1 player. And the nuke is just as effective if they don't have anti. As for porc noob tech, how many small games do I see? little, how many large, alot. It's just the way the game is played now, why is that so difficult to understand. Sure, currently I hate dsd, but that's only because you have a choice, air tech or have fun and die because just one player failed. 8v8 games are relaxing, and can also be interesting as you actually get to use more than t1.
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Niobium
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Re: BA Improved (large team games side project)

Post by Niobium » 05 Sep 2010, 12:48

As an improvement to BA, I think it does a great job. It isn't trying to solve every single problem in BA (of which there are many) in one version, so shouldn't be judged as if that is what it is trying to do.

What this mod seeks to do, with a very small number of changes, is just adjust some of the more OP/not-good-for-gameplay tactics and units of BA.

As it stands in the original BA, a small group of T2 bombers, whether rushed or otherwise, can carpet bomb and completely eliminate an entire players base every 9 seconds, taking under a minute to completely decimate the entire enemy team to the point of no recovery. Or alternatively they can be used to destroy entire ground armies in one pass, with the ground army having no chance of preventing the damage.

The change to nukes/antis was also needed, I don't think anyone will argue against the nerfing of point-and-click enemies-entire-base-is-now-a-crater, with remaining enemies unable to build antinukes in time to stop further nukes, leading to the eventual nuking of the entire team and a ruined game due to the efforts of a single player.

I think the changes would really improve the game by taking away some of the game-winning power single teched players have, whether they have teched from the back in an 8v8 DSD or teched from metal off the front in a 4v4.
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Jazcash
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Re: BA Improved (large team games side project)

Post by Jazcash » 05 Sep 2010, 12:53

Nerf Bladewings in every possible way and this BA mod gets a thumbs up from me :P
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Gota
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Re: BA Improved (large team games side project)

Post by Gota » 05 Sep 2010, 12:56

But are t2 bombers really too powerfull?It might be very powerfull on dsd 8v8 but what about when there are less crowded games?
Like a game of 4v4 on dsd or a 8v8 on a bigger more open map?on those occasions bombers might become useless since right now in open maps with less people t2 air is almost unused...

When there are many different game setups you can play, there will always be units that will shine on different occasions like bombers in 8v8 dsd or scouts on comet catcher 1v1...

The question is does this mod change something and makes it better overall?
I dont think so,i think it makes it different and looks at a very narrow type of play, i.e. a crowded porcy game.

What BA really needs in order to attract new players is improved models and effects,an installer and a website.
If you do that plus have these changes you made(which i think just make the game different not better) id definitely support your effort otherwise it doesn't seem to be worth the effort unless your willing to become official ba dev and be more open to suggestions than the current ba dev.
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Nixa
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Re: BA Improved (large team games side project)

Post by Nixa » 05 Sep 2010, 13:02

Try the bombers on 4v4 or 1v1, I'm sure they'll achieve the same goals they always did, ie/ economy destruction or com sniping.
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Gota
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Re: BA Improved (large team games side project)

Post by Gota » 05 Sep 2010, 13:03

Nixa wrote:Try the bombers on 4v4 or 1v1, I'm sure they'll achieve the same goals they always did, ie/ economy destruction or com sniping.
on 4v4 dsd or 1v1 games you usually dont reach t2 bombers ot they require way too much time and you instead get owned by land forces.
T2 bomber hordes are a fringe unit that works in overcrowded games.
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Nixa
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Re: BA Improved (large team games side project)

Post by Nixa » 05 Sep 2010, 13:04

Well, judging by that comment, the mod remains basically unchanged... why are you complaining?
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hoijui
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Re: BA Improved (large team games side project)

Post by hoijui » 05 Sep 2010, 13:41

instead of Improved, you should call it BA ForLargeGames or similar, which would eliminate confusion and the need for a description. and as for all mods, i recommend putting it on rapid, which will make the download very small, if you have BA through rapid already and for future versions of your own mod also.
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Gota
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Re: BA Improved (large team games side project)

Post by Gota » 05 Sep 2010, 15:20

Nixa wrote:Well, judging by that comment, the mod remains basically unchanged... why are you complaining?
Well seems your solution is making bombers have an even higher use threshold which means in the games i described the chances of them being used will diminish even further.

Why not find a way that will allow the use of t2 bombers in both cases properly?
Maybe it would be a better idea to buff up T2 AA or make t1 fighters more on odds with t2 fighters(atm t1 fighters are shit) thus making them more effective t2 bomber counters which means players would be able to create t1 fighters to fend off t2 bombers while not getting completely devastated if the enemy has a few t2 fighters..

These solutions will still not increase the usability threshold of t2 bombers in less crowded games while making them more counterable in all cases,especially if you know they are coming, like on the most played maps where players know roughly how the game is usually played(dsd usually means there will be bomber spam).

P.S
did you get a chance to test the new balance changes in BA?t2 flak has been buffed..
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JohannesH
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Re: BA II v1.0

Post by JohannesH » 05 Sep 2010, 16:33

It's just a really ass backwards way of development, you pick one map, one teamsize, which you don't enjoy. Then you try to make it into something you like by changing the game...
Make a new map you consider better suited for that teamsize then? With change on the gameside you force people who like dsd as it is to play it the way you like. And not just dsd players but everyone.

1 thing is also that on dsd nukes and bombers might even improve the game imo... If you take away the ways to decisively end the game it'll be a total slugfest very often, much harder to punish someone investing just into economy... It's still very possible to stop both, even if that might be too much to ask from your average random dsd team.
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Nixa
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Re: BA II v1.0

Post by Nixa » 05 Sep 2010, 16:55

Nowhere did I pick one map or teamsize when making these changes... I looked at all styles of games a how each would be effected by the changes. It just happens that the larger games would benefit most from the changes. I have maps that I've designed for specific large teamsizes, and on these the changes would benefit just as much as DSD (which I assume your basing your comment on).

Have you tried these changes? Have you seen how they play with the 'smaller' games? When you have then feel free to say these don't work and we'll happily take into consideration your experiences. Until then, speculation isn't going to get any testing done.
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Otherside
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Re: BA II v1.0

Post by Otherside » 05 Sep 2010, 18:50

Nixa wrote:Nowhere did I pick one map or teamsize when making these changes... I looked at all styles of games a how each would be effected by the changes. It just happens that the larger games would benefit most from the changes. I have maps that I've designed for specific large teamsizes, and on these the changes would benefit just as much as DSD (which I assume your basing your comment on).

Have you tried these changes? Have you seen how they play with the 'smaller' games? When you have then feel free to say these don't work and we'll happily take into consideration your experiences. Until then, speculation isn't going to get any testing done.
The changes look like a knee jerk reaction to 8v8BADSD and are terribad because it will only make the game porcier.
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Hobo Joe
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Re: BA II v1.0

Post by Hobo Joe » 05 Sep 2010, 20:30

Otherside wrote:
The changes look like a knee jerk reaction to 8v8BADSD and are terribad because it will only make the game porcier.

This.


Game balance 101: Never, EVER, balance around an unskilled and uncoordinated team.
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