Stopped reading right there.Saktoth wrote:Team games? Isolate your variables noob.

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Stopped reading right there.Saktoth wrote:Team games? Isolate your variables noob.
Its true though. You never seem to play games that arent half filled with newbs (apart from a few drop all-ins) afaik, its kinda hard to see any meaningful timings from that.Regret wrote:Stopped reading right there.Saktoth wrote:Team games? Isolate your variables noob.
Sure there is. Team games that are half smurfs half noobs are 90% of Spring's online community. It is advantageous to have balance which suits such a game.JohannesH wrote:Its true though. You never seem to play games that arent half filled with newbs (apart from a few drop all-ins) afaik, its kinda hard to see any meaningful timings from that.Regret wrote:Stopped reading right there.Saktoth wrote:Team games? Isolate your variables noob.
im guessing you forgot to read any of the posts in this thread.Tronic wrote:The current BA sea gameplay is very well balanced
Not at the start points. The crater start spot works well enough, but the beach-side start spot has just too big a gap between the metal patches and possible shipyard sites.Tronic wrote:Notice that I mentioned SSBv2, which does have plenty of metal in sea.
Yes... This map is bad, what can we do to balance it out??Pxtl wrote:SSB water has the problem that there isn't enough metal at the start spots, and the two oceans each have highly asymmetrical gameplay - one player starts next to the very high-metal landmass for each of the oceans.
The reasoin SSB can be a good map is that there is no way in hell you are going to win without using teamwork, unless your opponents are all retards.JohannesH wrote:Yes... This map is bad, what can we do to balance it out??Pxtl wrote:SSB water has the problem that there isn't enough metal at the start spots, and the two oceans each have highly asymmetrical gameplay - one player starts next to the very high-metal landmass for each of the oceans.
Though in SSBs defense, its quite possible to share resources and you should. If one plays together and other one doesnt then...
True, you will be mostly stalling metal if you have any decent amount of E (and tidals cost M too).Saktoth wrote:A 1 mex start just isnt good enough, with its higher BP and lack of compush, sea is very metal hungry.
The game ain't over at that point. Either the enemy kills your shipyard or he kills your conship (which would be in opposite sides of the pond at that time). In either case, you still have a bunch of mexes (thanks to them being underwater) and possibly also wrecks to reclaim. Build a new SY guarded by a torpedo launcher (repaired by the comm as needed), making the enemy corvettes useless.This is often why people get raped by scouts and vettes etc. I mean yeah, you'll get raped by vettes, if you can only afford one every 5 minutes, whoever wins the first vette rush is gonna win! (Though, there is also reclaiming any corpse if you're defending, but noobs will be noobs).
Starting conship to expand is a death sentence: He will kill or chase off your conship with his vette, if he is at all a skilled player, and probably have scouted you with a scout boat already so he'll know exactly where you are.Tronic wrote:This doesn't prevent you from building a lot of stuff, and getting two more mexes in the beginning doesn't really make that much difference. The initial building is done mostly with startmetal and once the ship has built a few more, you won't even notice the difference.
The only wrecks you have will be your own- a con cant kill a vette. By the time you reclaim the factory wreck, make a new one and a TL, he will be all over the sea. Even if you managed to get a mex up before he killed your con, he will be expanding freely, and he will still have his first vette to contain you. It is not 'useless', first of all because just 2 vettes beat a TL, and secondly because he can kill any con you try to expand with.The game ain't over at that point. Either the enemy kills your shipyard or he kills your conship (which would be in opposite sides of the pond at that time). In either case, you still have a bunch of mexes (thanks to them being underwater) and possibly also wrecks to reclaim. Build a new SY guarded by a torpedo launcher (repaired by the comm as needed), making the enemy corvettes useless.
Let's assume that you even skip making that scout and just rush a corvette (just for the sake of finding the best possible time frame), you will have it done at 1:38 and around enemy base at 2:26 at the earliest.Saktoth wrote:Starting conship to expand is a death sentence: He will kill or chase off your conship with his vette, if he is at all a skilled player, and probably have scouted you with a scout boat already so he'll know exactly where you are.
That's why a competent player quickly builds a torp when he scouts and sees that he is being corvette rushed or subrushed. That brings the defending player the advantage, even if he ends up losing the shipyard in the end under a massive team-supported rush.The only wrecks you have will be your own- a con cant kill a vette.
He will have hard time building a conship because he only has that one mex and wasted all his starting metal (and team support) on the rush. Even if he does kill my conship, I still have vastly superior amount of metal in wrecks (if he attacked the base) and in production (say, 3 mexes against one). If he attacked the base, I still have the conship producing E (at least for a while), so I am not totally E stalled while building new tidals.By the time you reclaim the factory wreck, make a new one and a TL, he will be all over the sea.
Thanks to my vastly superior metal production, it will only take a little while for me to push out a sub or simply outnumber the enemy in the number of corvettes. Building a corvette with just one mex takes 3:20 (when already out of startmetal), so building another one is simply not an option until after he has built a conship (takes 1:46) and some mexes with that - by which time I've had plenty of time to rebuild my base.Even if you managed to get a mex up before he killed your con, he will be expanding freely, and he will still have his first vette to contain you. It is not 'useless', first of all because just 2 vettes beat a TL, and secondly because he can kill any con you try to expand with.