Metal Makers

[Cabbage]

Hullo chaps, started playing again recently and noticed metal makers are back to 60e / 1.0m.

As far as i remember they used to be more expensive in early BA versions / AA. Now that everyone seems to play crappy 16 player games all the time it just seems a bit too easy for a couple of people to sit at the back, tech and spam bombers, berthas, nukes etc. It's pretty predictable and ofc there is always a defence but i reckon games would be a little more intersting with people having to focus more on the frontlines, have to attack prperly etc rather than just holding out for your ally to do the usual bomber spam, eco whoring etc.

will get flamed obviously, but games definately used to be alot more fluid than they currently are, and i reckon reducing MM economy would help, maybe somthing along the lines of a 30% increase in E usage for both T1 and moho MM's? MOHO mines should be your core M income, MM's should be there to soak up your excess E! T_T

[Jazcash]

Ha, I've been wanting to scrap Com metal to like 500 since I played BA for that one very reason alone. People just kill their own Com and use the 2500 Metal to make T2. Easy. Any noob can do it.

Don't expect any change though. Fatty is pretty solid and won't change the things that make BA hated by the people who don't play it =D

[Gota]

play smaller games mate.
Even in OTA ratio is 1/60.
"games have become "MM whoring" because of com wreckage and overcrowded games.
Just don't play 16 player games on small maps and your fine.
try a 2v2 or a 3v3 on comet catcher with good players If youll manage to find any.

[Jazcash]

play smaller games mate.
Even in OTA ratio is 1/60.
"games have become "MM whoring" because of com wreckage and overcrowded games.

I've been on about this recently too actually. I'm always trying to get anything between 2v2-6v6 games but in today's Spring climate, it's impossible. And that's probably on DSD alone. The only way to get anything less than 8v8 is if you boss yourself. The only way to get any players is if you host DSD. It's sad really, but that's what people play because autohost owners want their hosts to be used so they host DSD which noobs play because that's all the autohosts host which is etc etc.

The endless BA 8v8 DSD loop.

[Cabbage]

play smaller games mate.
Even in OTA ratio is 1/60.
"games have become "MM whoring" because of com wreckage and overcrowded games.

Yes i know OTA was 60 / 1, but im pretty sure early versions of BA / late AA were 80 or 90 /1.

And i agree, all these shitty overpopulated games are part of hte problem, bring back the old player no. limits!

[Gota]

play smaller games mate.
Even in OTA ratio is 1/60.
"games have become "MM whoring" because of com wreckage and overcrowded games.

Yes i know OTA was 60 / 1, but im pretty sure early versions of BA / late AA were 80 or 90 /1.

And i agree, all these shitty overpopulated games are part of hte problem, bring back the old player no. limits!

also back in the day nanos were either unavailable or weren't used much which made eco whoring more demanding.

[Pxtl]

Ha, I've been wanting to scrap Com metal to like 500 since I played BA for that one very reason alone. People just kill their own Com and use the 2500 Metal to make T2. Easy. Any noob can do it.

Don't expect any change though. Fatty is pretty solid and won't change the things that make BA hated by the people who don't play it =D

When comm metal is too low, commbombs are inevitable.

I just want the CA comm as a modoption, and for the DSD8v8 guys to use that as default.

[Jazcash]

Ha, I've been wanting to scrap Com metal to like 500 since I played BA for that one very reason alone. People just kill their own Com and use the 2500 Metal to make T2. Easy. Any noob can do it.

Don't expect any change though. Fatty is pretty solid and won't change the things that make BA hated by the people who don't play it =D

When comm metal is too low, commbombs are inevitable.

I just want the CA comm as a modoption, and for the DSD8v8 guys to use that as default.

Combombs are already inevitable.

[smoth]

also back in the day nanos were either unavailable or weren't used much which made eco whoring more demanding.

bull. we had to use them to counter act the wonky build time to resource ratios.

[Gota]

also back in the day nanos were either unavailable or weren't used much which made eco whoring more demanding.

bull. we had to use them to counter act the wonky build time to resource ratios.

But there was a long period of time from when they were introduced when they were hardly used.

[smoth]

you wasn't around when I was playing AA.....

they were around before you were here.

[Gota]

-

[Pxtl]

@JAZCASH

Moreso. Look, what's the main reason you *don't* commbomb your opponent? Because you're giving him a bunch of metal. If that gift is suddenly a paltry 500 metal, my first lab would be to airlab, push out a nanotower or two so that I can switch labs afterwards, and commbomb.

The comm's features are synergistic. Take one away and it falls apart. Hence the CA approach - completely change the comm into a normal, weak unit that is worth more alive than dead.

And nanotowers were always a big feature of AA. The first thing Caydr did when he got unit-specific damages was give them a damage-boost to each other on death so they'd chain horribly, as an attempt to mitigate this.

[Jazcash]

Firstly, the most used reason for combombing is to wipe out enemy defence lines so you can attack or whatever. In that case, you get the metal anyway.

Secondly, if you combomb in the right place at the right angle, you can make one of wrecks fly towards you anyway.

Thirdly, the *main* reason I never combomb my opponent is because I have no superbuilderrepairerdefender. Unless I have a nice amount of nano and I can cope without a Com, I will happily combomb if needed.

Most players in BA never care about losing metal or w/e when combombing, it's mainly used to kill stuff. And more often than not, successful combombs lead to you getting 5K metal anyway.

[JohannesH]

Metal makers quite useless though on a map without huge wind, if I'm not playing with noobs on overcrowded map I never consider making them. And even on those games I rarely make mms actually.

[Cabbage]

Metal makers quite useless though on a map without huge wind, if I'm not playing with noobs on overcrowded map I never consider making them. And even on those games I rarely make mms actually.

The thing is you don't just see people spamming wind & T1 MM's. They specifically sit at hte back doing bugger all until they can start spamming fusions & moho MM's. Then your face get's bombed off. or nuked. Or your ally does and you get flanked.

Ofc your allies can do this aswell but it doesn't make for particularly fun or exciting games. and yes ofc its largely due to the large games everyone palys now but then why not reduce effectiveness? It wont have particularly drastic effets on sensibly sized (for the map) games, and may lead to better large (for the map) ones.

[Gota]

BA was not meant to be played with huge teams.
at 8v8 it begins to crumble and starts turning into another game.

If you want to reduce com metal or remove it all together make the commander useful throughout the game.
Make it tougher or make it generate more and more resources as the game progresses.
There are ways to allow com explosion allow dgun and make the commander more usefull alive than dead except for some specific conditions that are not too common.
But this is all moot since the current dev has no will or desire to change anything major and its probably the same for most of BA's players although that's debatable.

Unless you want to make your own version with a balance you think is more fit just try and do th best with what BA has to offer right now or play some other mod.
There are other,not less balanced or fun mods/games out there.

[Pxtl]

In most versions of AA, it was 100 E for 1 M using a basic metal-maker (no idea about the mohos). BA set it to 80, to split the difference. Now it's back to OTA 60. Why?

[Tribulex]

only way to fix is to make mms cost 600 e or delete them from game and remove com wreck. Then you can fix the gameplay, improve models and effects, and...

WAIT A MINUTE! THERE IS A MOD CALLED XTA THAT IS JUST THAT! ZOMG!!!

[1v0ry_k1ng]

@com metal

would be very easy to make the com leave a wreck when killed, but leave no wreck when self-D or reclaimed

and make the boom bigger when self D