Priced as 10 berthas, ROF of over 20... but the energy-per-shot is freakishly high. If not for the massive amount of fusion-power to fire one, they'd be cost-effective... but the energy you need to use it is obscene.
Compare:
http://modinfo.adune.nl/index.php?act=e ... &MOD=ba591
http://modinfo.adune.nl/index.php?act=e ... &MOD=ba591
vulcan / buzzsaw don't fire
Moderator: Content Developer
Re: vulcan / buzzsaw don't fire
holy moly the energy per second is 100 times as muchPxtl wrote:Priced as 10 berthas, ROF of over 20... but the energy-per-shot is freakishly high. If not for the massive amount of fusion-power to fire one, they'd be cost-effective... but the energy you need to use it is obscene.
Compare:
http://modinfo.adune.nl/index.php?act=e ... &MOD=ba591
http://modinfo.adune.nl/index.php?act=e ... &MOD=ba591
Also the bertha does extra damage to the vulcan, as well as a lot more damage to krogoth and other t3 units
Re: vulcan / buzzsaw don't fire
Yep. If you run the numbers, it takes 10 megafus to keep it shooting. The energy-supply costs a few times more metal than the unit.
Really, though, fixing it would be silly. I mean, it's not supposed to be a balanced unit.
(although doubling the range would give it purpose).
Really, though, fixing it would be silly. I mean, it's not supposed to be a balanced unit.
(although doubling the range would give it purpose).
Re: vulcan / buzzsaw don't fire
Just like to note that the link to stats posted was for a very old version of BA.
The vulcan/buzzsaw have been changed since, they now cost only 18k and 21k energy per second to fire respectively (v7.01).
The vulcan/buzzsaw have been changed since, they now cost only 18k and 21k energy per second to fire respectively (v7.01).
Re: vulcan / buzzsaw don't fire
Oh. Didn't see that in the changelog. Bug in Modinfo meant that I couldn't see weapon energy costs in newer versions. I just picked 5.95 since I remember it being a version of BA that lasted a pretty long time.Niobium wrote:Just like to note that the link to stats posted was for a very old version of BA.
The vulcan/buzzsaw have been changed since, they now cost only 18k and 21k energy per second to fire respectively (v7.01).
Re: vulcan / buzzsaw don't fire
its a silly excessive unit like all the rest of t3. none of those are meant to be balanced. IMO its cooler in its excess than the fugly krog.
Re: vulcan / buzzsaw don't fire
Yeah... that makes a lot of sense. Doesn't the "V" in VLRPC come from "very", anyway? They're so expensive anyway, so shouldn't those fuckers be able to kill ANYTHING that doesn't have a cliff to hide behind?Pxtl wrote:(although doubling the range would give it purpose).
Re: vulcan / buzzsaw don't fire
dunno what is VLRPC
Re: vulcan / buzzsaw don't fire
They call Berthas and Intimidators "LRPC" for Long Range Plasma Cannon. I'm sure I've seen Vulcan / Buzzsaw referred to as VLRPCs.
Re: vulcan / buzzsaw don't fire
Never seen that abbrev. Always see them called RFLRPC. Either way, it's a joke unit - it really shouldn't be in the game. Only reason I suggest giving them a range-doubling is so that there is ONE scenario where the RFLRPCs are actually useful.js_leitch wrote:They call Berthas and Intimidators "LRPC" for Long Range Plasma Cannon. I'm sure I've seen Vulcan / Buzzsaw referred to as VLRPCs.
Re: vulcan / buzzsaw don't fire
You know what, I think the vulcan/buzzsaw might be a bit better than we're giving it credit for. I've been in a few games that have seen both sides field one or two krogoth/t3, and for that price they very well could have built the vulcan.
Re: vulcan / buzzsaw don't fire
OMG!!!! Buzzsaw and Vulcan are not cost effective...
Guys I personally remember noting that like 6 months ago in the BA thread while posting their stats and comparing them to BB.
And I am sure others have posted about this much earlier...
They are not effective for cost as the yare now,period
BBs are built one after another which means that when you build one Bertha you already start damaging and shooting the enemy.
Building a vulcan is like making many Barthas but only activating them when they are all done.
Not only that but the vulcan and Buzzsaw also cost more to operate.
They are an easy target for bombers nukes and what not and potentially cover less ground since several berthas might be placed at different locations on the map.
Guys I personally remember noting that like 6 months ago in the BA thread while posting their stats and comparing them to BB.
And I am sure others have posted about this much earlier...
They are not effective for cost as the yare now,period
BBs are built one after another which means that when you build one Bertha you already start damaging and shooting the enemy.
Building a vulcan is like making many Barthas but only activating them when they are all done.
Not only that but the vulcan and Buzzsaw also cost more to operate.
They are an easy target for bombers nukes and what not and potentially cover less ground since several berthas might be placed at different locations on the map.
Re: vulcan / buzzsaw don't fire
Yeah, although there are rare occasions where you only have a few spots where a bertha is placed effectively. Maybe that's the limited role of the vulcan.Gota wrote:OMG!!!! Buzzsaw and Vulcan are not cost effective...
Guys I personally remember noting that like 6 months ago in the BA thread while posting their stats and comparing them to BB.
And I am sure others have posted about this much earlier...
They are not effective for cost as the yare now,period
BBs are built one after another which means that when you build one Bertha you already start damaging and shooting the enemy.
Building a vulcan is like making many Barthas but only activating them when they are all done.
Not only that but the vulcan and Buzzsaw also cost more to operate.
They are an easy target for bombers nukes and what not and potentially cover less ground since several berthas might be placed at different locations on the map.
Maybe if it were vastly lower in scope - like the price of 3 big bertha but the effectiveness of 4 or so - then it would actually be a real unit.
Re: vulcan / buzzsaw don't fire
~10 min for 3 adv fusions (Can be quicker)
~5 min to build the buzzsaw
And you win the game.
Starting from nothing but a 3 mex start, you can rush one in ~25 minutes, which makes it a pretty quick way to win a game.
~5 min to build the buzzsaw
And you win the game.
Starting from nothing but a 3 mex start, you can rush one in ~25 minutes, which makes it a pretty quick way to win a game.
Re: vulcan / buzzsaw don't fire
25 min isnt really quick to me...
Re: vulcan / buzzsaw don't fire
25 minutes to a buzzsaw that you cannot properly operate (you don't have nearly enough energy) = fail. You won't be able to destroy much with it before the enemy L2 bombers take it down. Even if your team has someone spamming L2 fighters, there are so many ways that your project can get destroyed before or after it finishes building. Even if it is successfully defended, it can only cover a portion of the map due to its limited range and not being able to shoot over mountains.
As people have pointed out, it is too expensive, too local and in general doesn't have any significant benefits over spamming berthas.
What I suggest is significantly increasing the range (most importantly to outrange enemy BB farms, but also to reach their eco) and give it a high(er) trajectory option where it becomes a kind of "bombard the other half of the map" weapon, suitable for destroying too explosive bases (you know, the ones with densely stacked MohoMMs and AdvFusions). Then it would have some real benefits over berthas, now it is just 100 % useless.
As people have pointed out, it is too expensive, too local and in general doesn't have any significant benefits over spamming berthas.
What I suggest is significantly increasing the range (most importantly to outrange enemy BB farms, but also to reach their eco) and give it a high(er) trajectory option where it becomes a kind of "bombard the other half of the map" weapon, suitable for destroying too explosive bases (you know, the ones with densely stacked MohoMMs and AdvFusions). Then it would have some real benefits over berthas, now it is just 100 % useless.
Last edited by Tronic on 28 Sep 2009, 17:07, edited 1 time in total.
Re: vulcan / buzzsaw don't fire
vulcan needs to be able to shoot down at an angle like the BB can... it gets kinda bad if it's on a steep hill
Re: vulcan / buzzsaw don't fire
For Core, At 21k e/s for a buzzsaw, 3 adv fus will get you a little under half the energy needed to run the thing continuously, much less the rest of your eco. Then again, even at half-power it's putting out a farktonne of plasma.
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el_matarife
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Re: vulcan / buzzsaw don't fire
I haven't seen this mentioned in the thread yet, but the Vulcan and Buzzsaw used to have issues firing if they had buildings built close to them. I think that may have been fixed but I'd need to check the changelogs or test it to be sure.
Anyway, am I crazy for thinking the Vulcan and Buzzsaw should come with enough energy storage to fire them for at least one second? (18K and 21K respectively) I think it is pretty "user hostile" for us to assume that people will know to build an advanced energy storage if it isn't in the tool tip. Come to think of it, none of the units that require energy per second to fire list it in their tool tips.
Finally, exactly what do we need to do to get Trademark to update his stats site? I asked in his thread a while back and got no response. BA 6.91 is 6 versions out of date and almost 6 months old at this point, so the stats site is going to be more and more useless without some updates.
Anyway, am I crazy for thinking the Vulcan and Buzzsaw should come with enough energy storage to fire them for at least one second? (18K and 21K respectively) I think it is pretty "user hostile" for us to assume that people will know to build an advanced energy storage if it isn't in the tool tip. Come to think of it, none of the units that require energy per second to fire list it in their tool tips.
Finally, exactly what do we need to do to get Trademark to update his stats site? I asked in his thread a while back and got no response. BA 6.91 is 6 versions out of date and almost 6 months old at this point, so the stats site is going to be more and more useless without some updates.
Re: vulcan / buzzsaw don't fire
I thought the stats were just parsed directly from the BA file - would be nice if it could be done automatically when new BA was released or something. Don't really know how the site is set up though, so blehhhh