Balanced Annihilation V6.92

[Gertkane]

More damage would give them use as real porc break weapons and they could still be easily countered with faster moving units.

Worth a shot in the next version?

[Anyone]

Just wanted to give some feedback about defenses in BA:

They are EXCELLENTLY balanced!!! You have to attack, leave your base, can not hide behund a wall of turrets, simply because they are "realistic": An immobile defense is a help, but NOT a solution.

This is one thing why i prefer BA over all other mods.

And now that i ripped the "outline-units" widget from CA and applied it to my Spring installation for usage in BA -> HEAVEN!

It's amazing how much better and polished the "old" models suddenly look!

[Hacked]

[ 7428] This mod has locked LuaUI access

does this mean the mod lua overrides my lua?
is there a way i can use my own instead of the mod's?

[Niobium]

[ 7428] This mod has locked LuaUI access

does this mean the mod lua overrides my lua?
is there a way i can use my own instead of the mod's?

You would have to open your widget with some kind of text editor and change its name (Usually listed near very top of file)

Imo it was a silly move to make mod widgets override user widgets

Any user can just change the name of theirs and disable the mods to have their version. But the main thing is that when widgets get updated, most people have to wait until the next version of BA, instead of just being able to run springdownloader and have it automatically update (Or just download the updated widget files).

It's currently the case that 6.92 is running an old version of Defense Range widget which has bug with layout.. Yet everyone will have to wait until 6.93+ despite a fix already made

[Hacked]

besides its an annoyance because some widget have little configurable variables in the lua itself
if i want my defense range widget to have 2-pixel widthed lines, so be it

[someonesimple]

Imo it was a silly move to make mod widgets override user widgets
[...]
It's currently the case that 6.92 is running an old version of Defense Range widget which has bug with layout.. Yet everyone will have to wait until 6.93+ despite a fix already made

I just registered to quote Niobium on that, the 'BA-only' Lua system is an pain in the ass this way. If I wanted an widget in the first place, I would have it installed already.

Stop integrating widgets! And yes, that includes the bloody GUI.

[TheFatController]

I'll remove this code next spring version, it was only added so 6.92 wouldn't break 6.91 (in the same way that CA broke 6.91).

It was not intentional that the mod widgets would override the users widgets only their luaui base files.


As for the UI, I don't think there's anything wrong with including an interface, most of the feedback I've seen from new players is "good game, shit UI". Including a nice GUI will help new players and the pro players who are already familiar with Widgets can spend the 30 seconds to turn it off so I don't see what the problem is here.

[Anyone]

As long as it doesn't turn into a CA like UI overkill

[ginekolog]

[ 7428] This mod has locked LuaUI access

does this mean the mod lua overrides my lua?
is there a way i can use my own instead of the mod's?

YES, there is a way - just open widget gui_defenseRange.lua and edit line name into:

name = "Defense Range 5.11",

Then it works as they have diff name and u can enable wichever you want. Thats what i did and it works (still using 5.11)

[Wisse]

you guys are great at slapping eachothers backs, but srsly, ak/pw e-costs are total lulz and hammers are just somthing you build instead of storm/rocko on any map with more than a certain amount of hill (or when there are more than a certain amount of wrecks)- thats not alot of tactical decision in what to build (ie, storms, forever, until you build a better lab on 95% of played maps)

that bullshit about "kbots being hard mode" is another way of saying they are terrible. likewise, saying "they need lots of micro AND MICRO IS FUN YAY"- is kinda an indicator of massive fail since all flash need to be at least as effective in combat is a move order into the enemy stuff

fair enough that giving hammer/thuds complete moving accuracy and high RoF increased their effectiveness a great deal too much for an incremental change, but a flat revert is just weak because now they are just as useless (and playing kbot just as boring) as before.

Why are you trying so hard to make kbots even with veh? I just don't get it.
Bots are fine. You just have to decide whether you wanna use them or not considering multiple factors including personal preferences.

I guess you want mod with 100 units which all play the same and are equally effective. Time to call Basic, he's (was?) dreaming about same shit as you are.

And try not to answer my post with "LOL" again, couse it seems you like to quote me outside of debate in order to prove your already rejected point.

I honestly don't see why anybody thought it was smart to touch T1 balance, beyond naval units, at all. Overall, T1 was the most consistent and stable section of BA, with the most actual playtesting and tweaking since the primary developer and his consultants were for the most part either 1v1 players or high skill generalists.

Not to say balance was perfect, nothing ever is, but it was pretty solid.

Word.
Balance is off because game is off. There are 2 ways to fix this problem.
-We can dumb down the mod and start with simultaneous skill+mod evolution from scratch.
Easy, noob friendly solution, but requires another set of balancing, which will with high probability lead to exactly the same balance as it is now.
-Or we can just try to find use for useless units again, because they had their role in past, when skill was on a tad higher lvl.
This makes noobs cry and hate 1v1s a lot. Most of mod's balance will probably stay unchanged for quite a while.

It's up to mod creators and players to decide what they want tho -.-
I vote for 2nd solution :]

[1v0ry_k1ng]

you misread.

im suggest making ak/pw a more legit unit so playing bots isnt just spam storm on repeat until you can build a better lab. im suggesting making thud/hammer useful in a situation besides 'rly big hill' or 'big wall of wrecks' because making it a 'unit you build instead' option leaves the bot lab with two primary units- raider and rocko-or-hammer. since the raiders e-cost/bt is so prodigous compared to its cost/power in flashes, you cant really use them in such a way in a competetive game..
see, im doin it wrong because I like situations where you have a choice of lab in a competetive game, rather than two types of game that dont meet up, veh or bots.

but yeah, your not exactly all about the logical argument,
[quote]I guess you want mod with 100 units which all play the same and are equally effective. Time to call Basic, he's (was?) dreaming about same shit as you are.
And try not to answer my post with "LOL" again, couse it seems you like to quote me outside of debate in order to prove your already rejected point.
Balance is off because game is off. There are 2 ways to fix this problem.
-We can dumb down the mod and start with simultaneous skill+mod evolution from scratch.
Easy, noob friendly solution, but requires another set of balancing, which will with high probability lead to exactly the same balance as it is now.
-Or we can just try to find use for useless units again, because they had their role in past, when skill was on a tad higher lvl.
This makes noobs cry and hate 1v1s a lot. Most of mod's balance will probably stay unchanged for quite a while.
[/quote]
epic waste of time me replying ^_^

[hunterw]

i vote rebuff hammer/thud but very slightly

[Wisse]

@1v0ry_k1ng
Just answer this: Why do you need kbots to counter veh?

For me there are hovers, ships, planes, vehs and bots. They all have their own role which is meant to be completely different. I still don't know why you feel like kbots should be able to equally counter vehs.
Bots are separate branch in tech tree, so their function isn't supposed to overlap with function of other branches from same side.

If I exaggerate, you're trying to convince us, that we need to be able to use ships, even tho map doesn't have water. That's why we need to change the mod so you can drive your destroyers on land.
Or another completely legit example is requesting to buff hovers so you can chose them over vehs/bots on any map.


Bots (including raiders) need to be weaker to compensate their slope tolerance. Kbots have terrain advantage on most maps which gives you more choices of tactics (attack directions). You can guard choke point to stop veh, but you need all around def to stop bots for example.


In the end I'm not sure why I bother writing when you try to discredit me with "LOL" or

epic waste of time me replying ^_^

like you were retarded 13y old kid. Could you stop and think about what I'm saying and then provide proper argument with bigger picture than your 1v1 fails in mind. No hard feelings, but I'm think you're either troll, stubborn or stupid, because you won't/can't function normally in debate.


I'm starting to miss Noize, because he was way more sovereign and I didn't have to argue about shit like this.

[Regret]

If I exaggerate, you're trying to convince us, that we need to be able to use ships, even tho map doesn't have water. That's why we need to change the mod so you can drive your destroyers on land.

ahhaahahahah supcom

[1v0ry_k1ng]

again, you misread.

I suspect your not actually reading at all.

counter? I sure didnt say that. infact, I never even suggested kbots should be equal to veh, you pulled that out your ass, along with this:
[quote]you're trying to convince us, that we need to be able to use ships, even tho map doesn't have water. That's why we need to change the mod so you can drive your destroyers on land.
Or another completely legit example is requesting to buff hovers so you can chose them over vehs/bots on any map.[/quote]

protip: stay relavent

see, im doin it wrong because I like situations where you have a choice of lab in a competetive game, rather than two types of game that dont meet up, veh or bots.

Bots are separate branch in tech tree, so their function isn't supposed to overlap with function of other branches from same side.

fair enough.

my ak/pw point is just as relavent to pure bot vs bot. the prophiptive e-cost+bt makes using them as raiders less effective than just massing storms.
same goes for thud/hammer largely being a replacement unit for storm/rocko in some situations rather than a unit with a role of its own. only legit build becomes storms with small ratio of raiders for their LoS, which is dull compared to the large number of options veh lab contains.

n the end I'm not sure why I bother writing when you try to discredit me with "LOL"

you made a dumb argument iirc

[el_matarife]

What about trying something other than making kbots cheaper or stronger? I noticed rocket kbots tend to miss nearly 100% of the time against units that are moving. What about increasing their weapon velocity? Maybe Thud / Hammers could have a faster firing but less damage per shot weapon, combined with better accuracy. They might be more effective if they had less overkill than T1 tanks. I noticed that pretty much all the T1 kbots are modeled as having two weapons, which gives a good basis for assuming they fire more often but with less damage per shot.

[JohannesH]

I don't see why ak/pw would need buffing... They're good units and see a lot of use, why change? I don't want to see people spamming loads of them from the very start, that'd be boring. Rocket bots as the main unit just make for more interesting games.

And no faster shot for thuds/hammers please, don't change theire role, if you want some small buff just add very little more damage per shot... Just don't change their role...

[pintle]

Wisse would have more credibility if he did a couple of things: Address Ik's actual statements, as opposed to very poor straw man/personal attacks, and also; play mods other than BA to a competent level at 1v1. In this case I am speaking specifically of XTA, SA and CA.

Those 3 mods all have rewarding, meaningful choices, and progression of build, in the t1 bot lab. In all of those mods, veh are predisposed to win on flat ground, yet kbots are not fucked.

There are some extremely simple fixes staring you right in the face: fix pw/ak e cost, and making hammer/thud less lulfail being the two most blatantly obvious.

Even if you buff the shit outta thud/hammer, and make ak/pw cost effective, kbots are still gonna get raped on the flat by janus/leveller + samson/slasher, so its not breaking your oh-so-precious arbitrary superiority of veh, not to mention artillery, amphibs, better cons..

But you are correct, I bow to your gosu skill and superior logic, I will go back to spamming crusaders on CCR XTA 1v1.

[Regret]

Ok since everyone is putting their opinion as the correct one:

Kbots are fine, if you disagree you are a newb.

[Tribulexrenamed]

Ok since everyone is putting their opinion as the correct one:

Kbots are fine, if you disagree you are a newb.

Well said. However, you have to spam them like hell.