Logic Bomb Spam

[zwzsg]

In current KP version, logic bomb are free and unlimited. You could basically cover the whole map with them, if given enough time.

While I haven't see yet anyone winning only thanks to free minefield, and while it seems even a multi layered solid curtain of mines can't prevent a player from eventually losing, it still worries me a bit.

Back in some previous version, I remember I had limited the number of logic bomb to 32. I don't remember why this limit is now gone. Perhaps it was because the mine launcher didn't obey it? If such is the case, I have just recoded it so the byte mine launcher obey logic bomb unitlimit.

But then I wouldn't know what to set that unit limit at, and I don't know if a unitlimit is the right way to do. Maybe the number of logic bomb is already very limited by the microing time it takes to place them and that balance them out? Maybe I should make logic bomb self detonate after a certain amount of time? Or maybe instead of a per player limit no matter the map size, I should limit the density of mines (like no more than X mines per A area)?

So, yeah, what should I do with them mines?

[Pxtl]

I think a fixed limit per-player is fine - it's simple and understandable. If you want to be really fancy, you could scale the limit to be equal to the number of datavents plus the number of players on the map * 5 or something.

[Neddie]

I always thought 64 would be a sweet spot, but scaled to players would be nicer.

[imbaczek]

64 seems like a nice round number, yeah.

[Pxtl]

Thinking it over further, I'd go with a flat minimum cap of 8 plus 2 per datavent on the map. Marble Madness has 17 datavents. So, 8 + 34 = 42. 42 mines as a cap on Marble Madness is plenty. This way, large maps have more mines available to the player than smaller ones, using the number of datavents as a good indicator of size... meanwhile, the Greenfields-case of command-factory only (no datavents) would have only 8 mines per player.

Either way, though, a Lua widget onscreen with the mine count/limit would be a good thing.

[zwzsg]

Either way, though, a Lua widget onscreen with the mine count/limit would be a good thing.

I don't know, cluttered GUI is not always a good thing. All corners are already taken and I'm starting to have trouble with buildbar widget hiding network's buffer size.

[Google_Frog]

How about making mines chain so they can't be built right next to each other?

[Neddie]

I think if you want to concentrate them you should be permitted to. Personally I do not, but there is no real benefit to play if you make them chain.

[knorke]

to be honest the minefields have always felt out of place in kp for me.
(the minelaunch special from the byte is cool though)
There are already the blocks to stop movement which fits much nicer.

Maybe make mines bigger and visible so in open areas they are useless because units will just shoot them.
But around corners they will still be usefull because you can not go around without triggering them.

[Neddie]

I always thought the logic bombs fit an interesting optional role. I'm not terribly fond of either them or blocks, but sometimes I play with both of them and they don't really fill the same role.

[Saktoth]

Since they take constructors to build, and constructors take factory time, they basically just become a weapon on constructors, similiar to a sort of stockpile weapon with a conditional trigger.

This should not, in theory, be any more 'OP' than an artillery piece that is capable of delivering many times its cost in damage given enough time to do so.

Though personally i never had much use for them. They seem to explode on your own units as much as the enemies and there is better use for factory time than making cons to make mines. I dont think it is a problem, perhaps someone might exploit it in the future but i doubt it.

[Neddie]

Well, I think Sak and I are in agreement.

[1v0ry_k1ng]

I lost in a multi mod touney because the other dude just massively abused the megabit mine spam ability

[zwzsg]

This should not, in theory, be any more 'OP' than an artillery piece that is capable of delivering many times its cost in damage given enough time to do so.

Save that the pointer shots do not accumulate on the map until they're certain to hit an enemy.

1v0ry_k1ng

It's called byte not megabit: 8 != 1 048 576

Can I see the replay?

[Spawn_Retard]

I don't see a problem with them currently. I think they are a great way to slow and stop a attacking/game ending force.

I think more along the lines of the main lab being able to deploy them in a certain area around it, therefore you cannot just spam them across the map and act more like defence

[KDR_11k]

There's already the mine clearer. If someone plants so many mines the map is covered in them, well, you have to clear up slowly but building it up takes a ton of time and any AOE weapons will set them off and fry their owner's units. Seriously, stop worrying.