Suggestions

[luckywaldo7]

man really i cant stand this emo attitude of "baw baw this is not IP Free i dont want to touch it anymore" ....

Such a counter productive attitude

I really can't stand this emo attitude of "baw baw its new and different and I'm going to hate it before I've ever tried it"

That is the attitude that is counter-productive.

If you actually read through Saktoth's post you would realize that 1faction fits all of CA's old long-term goals perfectly. It comes as the natural evolution of CA from a game with its roots stuck in TA to an entirely new, unique game.

And anyway, the biggest complaint people have of CA is that it is too different from TA while still being too similar; this game should appeal to a larger audience then CA does now.

[Gota]

I can't wait to see how CA devs will fight with X mod devs over players.
CA is failing and so will This new mod cause MOST of you guys are just too lazy,and until some guys who aren't,take this project on their shoulders it will continue failing.
You haven't got enough people that do tons of work like some of the other new projects like S44 or SWIW.

CA,cause of Devs like Saktoth or Det was completely unable to draw in The BA crowed with the whole "OTA sucked,OTA style balancing sux,Flat balance is best bla bla bla" and just a general "we are best you all suck" attitude,antagonizing players both on the personal level and conflicting with many on the gameplay style.

On the other hand you also have no backbone to rely on when your IP free.
You don't have WW2 or the Starwars universe.
You could have relied on TA's 10 year old Legacy and awesome gameplay design but no...Some of you felt there was need to reinvent the wheel.

I think CA would benefit if the new mod people were to actually leave.

[Pxtl]

Gota, CA is trying to be more than jsut another "rebalanced BA" mod. Occaisionally this involves making controversial game balancing decisions. Iirc, the "flat balancing" and the "mex overdrive" got similar BAWWWing from BA fans, and each one of those made the game _better_.

[Spawn_Retard]

When you consider CA had over 1000 players, and now has less than 100 in just a few months, the sinkhole is harder and harder to ignore :p. This sink hole caused by bigger changes away from TA gameplay.

[pintle]

Iirc, the "flat balancing" and the "mex overdrive" got similar BAWWWing from BA fans, and each one of those made the game _better_.

Subjective (flawwwwwwed) analysis is subjective.

[luckywaldo7]

tbh I'm completely baffled at the apparent desire for Yet Another *A Mod

[pintle]

tbh I'm completely baffled at the apparent desire for Yet Another *A Mod

The game is called Complete Annihilation, and began life as a balance mod of BA. It still uses what is ostensibly the "TA" unit set.

If you wanted to make a completely new RTS game, I would really suggest starting completely from the ground up, not repeatedly changing facets of a game that is quite blatantly based off of Total Annihilation.

[Spawn_Retard]

If you wanted to make a completely new RTS game, I would really suggest starting completely from the ground up, not repeatedly changing facets of a game that is quite blatantly based off of Total Annihilation.

I totally agree, going backwards from a solid game that everyone plays in the server is just a terrible way to make a mod.

[Google_Frog]

If you wanted to make a completely new RTS game, I would really suggest starting completely from the ground up, not repeatedly changing facets of a game that is quite blatantly based off of Total Annihilation.

CA was making a new RTS but it was a gradual process. 1faction's factory balance is very different so you could say it's built from the ground up. It uses the same units but they will be rebalanced to increase diversity, it's much harder to balance everything at once before testing starts as they'd be balanced in a void.

When you consider CA had over 1000 players, and now has less than 100 in just a few months, the sinkhole is harder and harder to ignore :p. This sink hole caused by bigger changes away from TA gameplay.

When has Spring had over 1000 players?

[1v0ry_k1ng]

CA *originally* was just going to be pimped BA with slightly differently balanced units (regening flash/gator, mostly)

then it became a project to remake *A the best it could be- this was around the 800-1200ish stage, controlled by quant- stuff kicked ass.

then it was some kind of experiment with drastic changes to gameplay made

then it became the testing ground for LUA

then it gained its obsession with open source

at some point its fx became cartoony

only now is it becoming a quest for flatbalance 1 faction IP free, and this has really destroyed most the community it built up

[pintle]

I would love to see the ideas proposed by some of the CA devs realised in an RTS such as the one you guys clearly have a vision of.

I also think that the current state of CA, with a bit more tweakage here and there, and a strong community effort to make it GPL/Cavedog IP free or whatever benchmark, could become the core game on the engine, and replace the dying dinosaur that is BA.

I'm not in the loop enough to have any idea if the currently active devs could sustain both projects to completion in a reasonable time frame, but I stand by what I said previously: If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[knorke]

the games have lately developed into a large teams on cc/dsd/tabula blargh. Not fun.
Also, I _really_ do not remeber the last of such games where the game did not have to be paused because someone was having fps problems due to lua or some "i can't rightlick anymore because some widgetbla." Or scripterror spam with some units.
And all that in stables too. not good.
It appears to me that stuff in that area is put out too fast, too untested and with bad default settings.

Imo if you really want to do this 1 factionthing, step away from TA/CA even more. Remove the commander, add a new ressource system, no nano stuff etc.
Otherwise its just another *a competior that has to fight with ca over the few players who are not playing ba.

---

only partly ca related:
Imo most spring games are already balanced very flat compared to other rts.
Otherwise we would have much more detailed buildorder tutorials etc.
In spring you just build "what seems right", it does not matter that much anyway. Compare that to the online gameplay of ie broodwar which is very schematic, timed buildorders. In broodwar it makes a difference if you use your 7th or 8th probe to build a vespin thingy. (yeah, some of it is l33t pr0gam4r blabla but thats not the point) In ca the difference of starting with 3 or 5 windmills is not really that dramatic. Reclaiming and fast raids make the game so unpredictable its not worth the effort to care: Reclaim some scrapfield and suddendly you are swimming in metal.
I think that is what makes spring so hard for new players. That is also why my eco in age of empires 2 usually sucks, I just can not "see" the difference building this or that now or later will make.
With spring I have kind of developed a feeling for that, but noobs struggle with that.
Make a game with c&c style eco system and a techtree that slowly unfolds during the game. So no newtraps like start with a nuke silo.
Has this been done before? A hundred times. But maybe spring just needs a more mainstream game that is not icon wars, is not won 99% by micro and timed played, does not feature hundreds of robots with confusing names and is just simple build a powerplant, build a baracks, get money, make tanks.

tldr:
dont think spring "needs" a ultraflat balance rts, that's too much of a niche market. More command&conquer, less age of empires.

[KingRaptor]

MOST of you guys are just too lazy

with the whole "OTA sucked,OTA style balancing sux,Flat balance is best bla bla bla" and just a general "we are best you all suck" attitude

You could have relied on TA's 10 year old Legacy and awesome gameplay design

Thanks, I was forgetting why no Spring game dev has ever taken you seriously.

[Gota]

Too harsh?
Just how it is...you can deny it but it wont change the facts.

[JohannesH]

Imo most spring games are already balanced very flat compared to other rts.
Otherwise we would have much more detailed buildorder tutorials etc.
In spring you just build "what seems right", it does not matter that much anyway. Compare that to the online gameplay of ie broodwar which is very schematic, timed buildorders.In broodwar it makes a difference if you use your 7th or 8th probe to build a vespin thingy. (yeah, some of it is l33t pr0gam4r blabla but thats not the point) In ca the difference of starting with 3 or 5 windmills is not really that dramatic.

Meh get a decenttly skilled and sized playerbase, play for 10 years and see how starting with 3 or 5 wind is different. Or no actually, its easy to figure out that it makes a difference already. While SC BW has more predictable economy yes, doesnt mean that here you could just build whatever and get away with it - not against a player with a more thought out build.

Why dont we have nice BO tutorials then? First thing is that stuff is so map specific, and the bigger thing is that nobody cares enough to write guides.

[Google_Frog]

When you consider CA had over 1000 players, and now has less than 100 in just a few months, the sinkhole is harder and harder to ignore :p. This sink hole caused by bigger changes away from TA gameplay.

Actually now that I think about it the drop in players correlates to less frequent balance changes.

Imo most spring games are already balanced very flat compared to other rts.
Otherwise we would have much more detailed buildorder tutorials etc.
In spring you just build "what seems right", it does not matter that much anyway. Compare that to the online gameplay of ie broodwar which is very schematic, timed buildorders.In broodwar it makes a difference if you use your 7th or 8th probe to build a vespin thingy. (yeah, some of it is l33t pr0gam4r blabla but thats not the point) In ca the difference of starting with 3 or 5 windmills is not really that dramatic.

What JohannesH said.

[KingRaptor]

I suppose I'll just have to spell it out for you.

CA is failing and so will This new mod cause MOST of you guys are just too lazy,and until some guys who aren't,take this project on their shoulders it will continue failing.

Our Lua output is easily the highest in all of Spring. While we don't have anything quite like the art productivity of the S44 or IW teams, we've made a not-inconsiderable number of working models over the past year (definitely far more than almost all other *A mods). Though this is strictly irrelevant, I ask you now: how much content have you made for SA or any other project?

CA,cause of Devs like Saktoth or Det was completely unable to draw in The BA crowed with the whole "OTA sucked,OTA style balancing sux,Flat balance is best bla bla bla" and just a general "we are best you all suck" attitude,antagonizing players both on the personal level

Ridiculous caricature of the actual positions involved.

You could have relied on TA's 10 year old Legacy and awesome gameplay design but no

Spring has been around for four years now, how many players has it gotten us all this while? Just how much do you expect the "TA legacy" to carry Spring, especially in competition for players with both OTA and TA3D? SA adheres fairly closely to the OTA design, how much good has it done for you? The other successful "*A" mod (besides BA and CA) is NOTA - the name says it all.

If anything we need to move out of the "OTA remake" mindset if the Spring project is going to get anywhere. "Spiritual successor" a la SupCom may work, but simply being TA in new clothes is a dead end.

[Gota]

Heh stop comparing CA to SA.
SA had a simple goal both at the beginning and and the final version.
I did not put up much work and yes,if i would have redone all models and effects,made a website,made a tutorial and a campaign SA would probably get played more.
Thing is SA was not the topic of discussion.

The question is why doesn't CA have a lot of players.
I supplied What I think is the correct answer.
You want to blame it on BA's initial popularity when CA started that's fine.
I just compare it to other upcoming projects that seem to not feel as random and disoriented about what it is they are making and striving for.
Those also try not to rely on Spring players while CA evidently does but ATM nobody has made any efforts to make Spring players like CA,on the contrary,A lot of effort was put into making many spring players dislike CA for the reasons i specified.

I personally don't believe turning the game on its head every week,to achieve "flat balance",is worth not having any players unless you have someone ego tripping and using the project to make his PERSONAL wet dream of how a game should be played come true.

TA hasn't brought us players because its not ip free and there isn't one project that has several serious devs working on it.

When I write TA i mean the gameplay,style of play and story.
All names,models,and textures can be changed just fine.
What CA has ATM is a weirdly twisted version of TA with even less consistent visual design while trying to disconnect from TA without having any "lore" in the form of campaigns visual aids,tutorials and so on.

No familiar gameplay,no familiar lore and an antagonizing attitude by some members.

[1v0ry_k1ng]

without being trollin' or hatin', gota is pretty much on the mark for me at least

[Pxtl]

There are a million really good mods that are rebalances of TA. BA, BOTA, SA, NOTA, XTA, etc. XTA and NOTA actually look quite good, graphically, so if you're into CA for the graphics, you have those to play, too.