[misc] enforcment of spring >= 104.0 for autohosts with botflag - Page 3

[misc] enforcment of spring >= 104.0 for autohosts with botflag

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RickHustle
Posts: 44
Joined: 13 Sep 2012, 14:40

Re: [misc] enforcment of spring >= 104.0 for autohosts with botflag

Post by RickHustle » 10 Apr 2019, 20:24

I also don’t understand why it was necessary to break a well-balanced BA. Why it was impossible to release the new version of spring and to support the old version of BA in it, or if it is not possible to accurately transfer the entire balance to the new one.
People play in Spring because of the good balance of the game. No one needs these minor graphical improvements, new games better by graphics by all positions. And spring will not catch up with them never. No balance - no game, no development.

Usually, in commercial developments, everyone is chasing after features, because without this there will be no sales. The client will not buy the update if there are no innovations in products. Nobody needs innovations here. We are all not young people anymore and we just want a stable product without hard innovations.
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RickHustle
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Re: [misc] spring >= 104.0

Post by RickHustle » 10 Apr 2019, 20:32

Silentwings wrote:
10 Apr 2019, 14:56
Subsisting on old versions, and dying the slow death of hardware progression & public exploits, may well be favoured by some communities, and may well happen elsewhere - but I don't think the engine devs are interested in having it here.
Hardware progression is not so fast. I believe that i can install current version on linux at most 20 years yet and can save the all drivers for it and can find analog hardware if it will be broken. So, i can to use all libraries thet needs for spads and uberserver too.
So, save for example version 103.0 of Spring for next 20 years it's pretty easy task.
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hokomoko
Spring Developer
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Re: [misc] enforcment of spring >= 104.0 for autohosts with botflag

Post by hokomoko » 10 Apr 2019, 20:42

RickHustle wrote:
10 Apr 2019, 20:24
Usually, in commercial developments, everyone is chasing after features, because without this there will be no sales. The client will not buy the update if there are no innovations in products. Nobody needs innovations here. We are all not young people anymore and we just want a stable product without hard innovations.
We chase innovation because innovation is motivation. Without motivation there'll be nothing here.
The spring server is hosted by the spring engine project and hence follows the goals of this project.
We don't ignore games, of course, there was apt time to upgrade any game to a recent enough engine and even now it's not a huge amount of effort to do so.
If your goals are contradictory to the project, feel free to host your own server with any versions and/or rules you see fit.
Mando wrote:
10 Apr 2019, 20:16
From the last posts from engine devs, i realised that these guys are unaware of the fact that they are using effort to develop this engine, and at the same time the abusive community admins is killing the whole player base that uses their engine.
Hokomoko thinks that we are struggling with the development and doesnt know that we are struggling to keep the hosts unbanned xD
Like they have 0 clue of what happened in the last 1 year or so.
What version of the story did Bluestone and the other admins tell them? :|

Any mod that has the potential to remove Floris/Triton BA from the market gets banned and the last BA10 crap is the result.
When you dont allow people to create stuff with your engine, and kill the competition because your boyfriend is a pussy dev and cant stand a challenge, you cant expect to end up with a successful product.
Oh, but we do know... we do.
You reap what you sow, Mando.
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ThinkSome
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Re: [misc] enforcment of spring >= 104.0 for autohosts with botflag

Post by ThinkSome » 11 Apr 2019, 01:40

What is the problem? You can still play quality 4v4 games on 103.0 BA $OLD on non-botflagged autohosts. Honestly, why aren't all games limited to <=4v4? Then there could be >4v4 exceptions for games that can fill a few <=4v4 games simultaneously without the million-spectator pile-up.

Side note: I was told by a certain warzone2100 dev that they regret letting people play 5v5 (up from 4v4). They still have 5v5 as limit and no spectator support at all! Besides that, there are no autohosts, no chatrooms and game rooms are removed from server once the game starts. There is no drama there and people behave much more constructively.
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Flash
Posts: 29
Joined: 12 Dec 2010, 18:03

Re: [misc] enforcment of spring >= 104.0 for autohosts with botflag

Post by Flash » 11 Apr 2019, 12:08

ThinkSome wrote:
11 Apr 2019, 01:40
What is the problem? You can still play quality 4v4 games on 103.0 BA $OLD on non-botflagged autohosts. Honestly, why aren't all games limited to <=4v4? Then there could be >4v4 exceptions for games that can fill a few <=4v4 games simultaneously without the million-spectator pile-up.

Are you serious? Have you ever been on the server and saw what actually is beeing played?
This whole thing just shows me that you guys really dont care at all about the playerbase
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Mando
Posts: 15
Joined: 10 Apr 2019, 14:47

Re: [misc] enforcment of spring >= 104.0 for autohosts with botflag

Post by Mando » 11 Apr 2019, 12:42

ThinkSome wrote:
11 Apr 2019, 01:40
What is the problem? You can still play quality 4v4 games on 103.0 BA $OLD on non-botflagged autohosts. Honestly, why aren't all games limited to <=4v4? Then there could be >4v4 exceptions for games that can fill a few <=4v4 games simultaneously without the million-spectator pile-up.

Side note: I was told by a certain warzone2100 dev that they regret letting people play 5v5 (up from 4v4). They still have 5v5 as limit and no spectator support at all! Besides that, there are no autohosts, no chatrooms and game rooms are removed from server once the game starts. There is no drama there and people behave much more constructively.
Just speechless xD
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Sabutai
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Re: [misc] enforcment of spring >= 104.0 for autohosts with botflag

Post by Sabutai » 11 Apr 2019, 13:35

It's terrible. The situation has escalated so far that some guys have set up their own server resulting in a further fracturing of the community. I have few questions:
  • Is the spring engine project separate from the official server?
  • Why is it necessary to limit games to 4v4? For instance we had several shooter mods that were played with way more players
  • How is this limitation enforced? Is it serverside or springside?
  • What does the botflag actually do and why is it necessary?
Thank you
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abma
Spring Developer
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Re: [misc] enforcment of spring >= 104.0 for autohosts with botflag

Post by abma » 11 Apr 2019, 13:52

Sabutai wrote:
11 Apr 2019, 13:35
It's terrible. The situation has escalated so far that some guys have set up their own server resulting in a further fracturing of the community. I have few questions:

Is the spring engine project separate from the official server?
no
Sabutai wrote:
11 Apr 2019, 13:35
Why is it necessary to limit games to 4v4? For instance we had several shooter mods that were played with way more players

What does the botflag actually do and why is it necessary?
https://springrts.com/wiki/Botflags
Sabutai wrote:
11 Apr 2019, 13:35
How is this limitation enforced? Is it serverside or springside?
the lobby server enforces this.
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RickHustle
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Re: [misc] enforcment of spring >= 104.0 for autohosts with botflag

Post by RickHustle » 11 Apr 2019, 14:01

hokomoko wrote:
10 Apr 2019, 20:42
We chase innovation because innovation is motivation. Without motivation there'll be nothing here.
Ok. I understand this. In this case developers who want own innovations should to leave project and do something own games. Not this public project.
For example - you bring your car to autorepar station and told them - "Guys, by car is broken it's poor wind up". And they will do you flashlights under bottom and broked engine. You ask them "Wtf guys? it's looks cool but the car don't drive. Its main purpose to drive." and they told you "We did the job for which we had the motivation."

Even if they do it for free, who need that job with such result?

Rollback all of your changes to 1-2 years back and get out from this project. No one need such type of development. Your clients is players.
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Kloot
Spring Developer
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Re: [misc] enforcment of spring >= 104.0 for autohosts with botflag

Post by Kloot » 11 Apr 2019, 14:11

RickHustle wrote:Your clients is players.
No, game developers (which BA9 and PA do not have) are our "clients". Players are theirs.

I guess you'll just have to... learn how to hustle?
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RickHustle
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Re: [misc] enforcment of spring >= 104.0 for autohosts with botflag

Post by RickHustle » 11 Apr 2019, 14:15

Kloot wrote:
11 Apr 2019, 14:11
RickHustle wrote:Your clients is players.
No, game developers are our "clients". Players are theirs.

I guess you'll just have to... learn how to hustle?
Do own project, own development. What are you doing here? This is not commercial project. You will not sell it. It's project for people, for players.
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RickHustle
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Re: [misc] enforcment of spring >= 104.0 for autohosts with botflag

Post by RickHustle » 11 Apr 2019, 14:22

If the development of the engine Spring breaks the entire gameplay of modifications, then the question is whether this development of the engine is necessary?
Either this must be done simultaneously or not at all.
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RickHustle
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Re: [misc] enforcment of spring >= 104.0 for autohosts with botflag

Post by RickHustle » 11 Apr 2019, 14:24

Sorry, I'm a little pissed off. I say very banal and obvious things that I think should be clear to everyone. Especially after my auto workshop example.
I am writing several posts because I have not found an edit button here.
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Kloot
Spring Developer
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Re: [misc] enforcment of spring >= 104.0 for autohosts with botflag

Post by Kloot » 11 Apr 2019, 14:27

You (all of you) can either

1) stop whining and take a day or two to update PA to 104, then move on with your life, or
2) read this statement again and act on it
hokomoko wrote:If your goals are contradictory to the project, feel free to host your own server with any versions and/or rules you see fit.

RickHustle wrote:the question is whether this development of the engine is necessary?
The question is whether anything is necessary. Do you need to play games on 103?
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Flash
Posts: 29
Joined: 12 Dec 2010, 18:03

Re: [misc] enforcment of spring >= 104.0 for autohosts with botflag

Post by Flash » 11 Apr 2019, 14:49

Kloot wrote:
11 Apr 2019, 14:27
You (all of you) can either

1) stop whining and take a day or two to update PA to 104, then move on with your life, or
We saw a lot of people failing to deliver a ba version for 104 in the last 2 years. Since im am not a Developer i dont know if the problem is on the engine dev side or on the gamedev side. They just blamed each other while players blamed gamedevs.
Thanks to this situation the gamedevs left and enginedevs now think they are above all and destroy playerbase like its fun.

Give official server to some neutral instance and end that botflag nonsense
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RickHustle
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Re: [misc] enforcment of spring >= 104.0 for autohosts with botflag

Post by RickHustle » 11 Apr 2019, 14:51

1) Now it's too bugged to play. So i cannot use it.

2)
>If your goals are contradictory to the project, feel free to host your own server with any versions and/or rules you see fit.
I did it already. Now you have only Fabrice autohosts with BA. Last man!

>The question is whether anything is necessary. Do you need to play games on 103?
It's not so necessary for me, but i have not problem to install and play in 103 version. And i have a lot of trouble after you did upgrade to 104 version.

As it was before - updates were rarely released, you could download the version and play for half a year, a year.
Now versions come out every other day, they are downloaded every time to SpringLobby and I do not always get synchronization. Under Windows, this update system works poor.
Spring lobby inexorably should lie in the "Users" folder of drive C and no where else. Or the engines will not be picked up at all or donwload games/maps to wrong place.

These updates of the engine versions do not bring any changes in terms of fixing bugs, units are still stuck, building is not available at some places after bomber landing one time on it and other bugs.

The balance of BA has changed and many people do not like it.

Auto-host with the 104th version to configure do not understand how. 103rd version worked on it perfectly. Now I am putting a maintance version and then synchronizing with this or others versions of 104 spring of autohosts. But not both at once. The number of problems only arrives, the complexity of the installation increases.

For example, even nowhere is it written which version of the Spring corresponds to which version of the BA.
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Mando
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Re: [misc] enforcment of spring >= 104.0 for autohosts with botflag

Post by Mando » 11 Apr 2019, 14:55

Kloot wrote:
11 Apr 2019, 14:11
RickHustle wrote:Your clients is players.
No, game developers (which BA9 and PA do not have) are our "clients". Players are theirs.

I guess you'll just have to... learn how to hustle?
How some of your clients have the power to go into the office of other clients of yours and ban their customers or destroy the office itself?
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hokomoko
Spring Developer
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Re: [misc] enforcment of spring >= 104.0 for autohosts with botflag

Post by hokomoko » 11 Apr 2019, 14:57

RickHustle wrote:
11 Apr 2019, 14:01
Ok. I understand this. In this case developers who want own innovations should to leave project and do something own games. Not this public project.
You seem to get Open Source wrong. While the code and products are public, the organisation is definitely not. We are not state nor shareholder owned.
In fact we are probably the most private project there can be because we also hardly depend on our clients or their number.

Why we do it and what we choose to do is our own problem. I actually did a public talk on that.
Some might do it for a community, some might do it for the technical challenge and some for boosting their self-confidence.
Even if we were all doing it for the players, it doesn't have to be specifically you, there's lots of other players.
We have no obligation to any one person and your entitlement doesn't help your case.
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RickHustle
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Re: [misc] enforcment of spring >= 104.0 for autohosts with botflag

Post by RickHustle » 11 Apr 2019, 15:14

hokomoko wrote:
11 Apr 2019, 14:57
Some might do it for a community, some might do it for the technical challenge and some for boosting their self-confidence.
It good and right and it's yours own business but it should not broke all project in result, right?
If i want to start to develop spring for increase my technical challenge i should not do destructive changes? How could you feel yourself if i will register from a lot of accounts and make own changes in project that kill all of your job? I will do it for my increase my self-confidence as developer but i don;'t think that you will like it.

I think there is should be rules and vector of development. Maybe it should be testers/players requests.
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Flash
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Joined: 12 Dec 2010, 18:03

Re: [misc] enforcment of spring >= 104.0 for autohosts with botflag

Post by Flash » 11 Apr 2019, 15:18

hokomoko wrote:
11 Apr 2019, 14:57
RickHustle wrote:
11 Apr 2019, 14:01
Ok. I understand this. In this case developers who want own innovations should to leave project and do something own games. Not this public project.
You seem to get Open Source wrong. While the code and products are public, the organisation is definitely not. We are not state nor shareholder owned.
In fact we are probably the most private project there can be because we also hardly depend on our clients or their number.

Why we do it and what we choose to do is our own problem. I actually did a public talk on that.
Some might do it for a community, some might do it for the technical challenge and some for boosting their self-confidence.
Even if we were all doing it for the players, it doesn't have to be specifically you, there's lots of other players.
We have no obligation to any one person and your entitlement doesn't help your case.
Noone is stopping you from your technical challenge!

Noone is stopping you from boosting your selfconvindence!

We neither have the power to stop that nor do we want it.

So why do you missuse your power and stop us from playing?
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