[website] major upgrades of wiki / forum - Page 3

[website] major upgrades of wiki / forum

Happenin' news on what is happening in the community. Content releases, new tutorials, other cool stuff.
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PepeAmpere
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Re: [website] major upgrades of wiki / forum

Post by PepeAmpere »

I have mixed feelings about this.

I hope the reasons for that was really functional (tech getting obsolete, there were missing some important features for docu ability, etc.).

I can adapt the visual changes and I will wait with overall feedback once the transition is done (there are still many inconsistencies).

Forb! I hope this is not one of your hurray-missions :regret: and the conversion will be completed, not get stuck somewhere in the middle. I hope people spend the important time with tweaking the details. I know that making huge relaunch is always more fun than the 80% of the remaining boring part of making result polished and perfect.
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FLOZi
MC: Legacy & Spring 1944 Developer
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Re: [website] major upgrades of wiki / forum

Post by FLOZi »

[00:12:23] <Nightwatch> <CarRepairer> flozi need an image on the wiki
[00:12:36] <Nightwatch> <CarRepairer> i think you should set $wgLogo to the URL path to your own logo image.
[00:12:39] <Nightwatch> <CarRepairer> just a thought
Also RFC vis a vis tag template:

https://springrts.com/wiki/User:Flozi#Scratchpad

Also:
[00:40:08] <[S44]FLOZi> we should probably have an external stylesheet and reference classes in templates
[00:40:30] <[S44]FLOZi> so have a single style for 'function', 'value', 'type' etc
[00:41:57] <Nightwatch> <CarRepairer> good idea
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Forboding Angel
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Re: [website] major upgrades of wiki / forum

Post by Forboding Angel »

MasterBel2 wrote:Hmm I'm also not getting an edit button appearing. The other two are there. Weird.
What device, what browser, etc?
gajop
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Re: [website] major upgrades of wiki / forum

Post by gajop »

Silentwings wrote: There are many wiki pages that link/refer to forum posts and vice versa; as such their purposes overlap. Besides, its common to browse them together and natural for them to share the same navigation bar (hence why up to now they did...).

The blue http://www.springrts.com homepage being the only page that isn't styled bright white, when its clearly part of the same website as the forum, is just ridiculously bad style imo.

It would ofc be good if mantis could also share the navigation bar. I don't think its very easy to do, but that it doesn't is presumably not seen as a step backwards by anyone, so I wouldn't think it was worth attention.
I think navigation bars should be added on all sites directly run by Spring.
I also think we should look into how the homepage appearance. Not only is it in a completely different color theme, I would say it also looks a bit outdated. I'm not a web designer so I can't point out at the exact issues (maybe too many gradients and rounded rectangles?), but it doesn't seem like a modern web page and is certainly different style from the forums and wiki.

EDIT: This is where I think ZK's site shines. There is complete integration between "site", "forum" and "wiki", so much that it might as well just be one entity.
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Forboding Angel
Evolution RTS Developer
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Re: [website] major upgrades of wiki / forum

Post by Forboding Angel »

PepeAmpere wrote:Forb! I hope this is not one of your hurray-missions :regret: and the conversion will be completed, not get stuck somewhere in the middle. I hope people spend the important time with tweaking the details. I know that making huge relaunch is always more fun than the 80% of the remaining boring part of making result polished and perfect.
My patience is thin. What are you talking about? All this was done a year ago. It's been on the test server all that time. You do know that I do this shit professionally, right?

First of all, a while back, JK just straight up deleted over a year's worth of professional redesign that was done to the site, forums and wiki, and that shit looked GOOD too. But JK just deleted it off of the test server, because fuck you that's why. I should have told abma to go pound sand when he asked me to move it over to the spring test server, but I did so in good faith, and a year's worth of hard work went up in smoke because <strings of expletives>. Abma also bears some of the responsibility because he refused to keep the wp db separate from all the other databases (Which would have prevented 99% of the issue). I tried to explain why putting all your eggs into one basket was a bad idea, but over the course of a month he refused to be persuaded. I have no wish to publicly excoriate Abma, because he honestly didn't know any better and thought he was doing what was right. Who could have foreseen someone having such blatant disregard for everyone else.

But oh, thanks to JK we got ugly as fuck red title bars, so that was totally worth deleting everything we were working on.

No one fucks with the front page because everyone here is terrified of FOSS like wordpress, which nearly every new professional site is built upon because it beats the brakes of of anything even remotely similar. Ain't no one trying to do this shit manually.I even have a framework that would allow me to redo the site in mere minutes. Ain't nobody (professional) tryna fuck with doing this shit manually, fuck that.

There are multiple professional web developers here (Myself, AF, etc), but the people who don't know horseshit from peanut butter are the ones that tell everyone how shit is supposed to be.
Forb! I hope this is not one of your hurray-missions
And what exactly the hell is this supposed to mean anyway?
EDIT: This is where I think ZK's site shines. There is complete integration between "site", "forum" and "wiki", so much that it might as well just be one entity.
The ZK site is a fucking travesty.
gajop
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Re: [website] major upgrades of wiki / forum

Post by gajop »

#1 Being a "professional" isn't an argument for anything in itself.
#2 ZK's site has high consistency, much larger than what we've got here. Whether it's good or not is a different issue.
#3 Refrain from hostility and become more polite when dealing with feedback. Stop getting "triggered".
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Forboding Angel
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Re: [website] major upgrades of wiki / forum

Post by Forboding Angel »

"Consistency" is not necessarily a good thing when spread across 3+ different systems. The exception would be the navigation bar, that is a good consistency to keep, but shoehorning one design into 3 vastly different systems only cause a world of trouble. What you keep consistent is what matters, not consistency for the sake of being consistent (I.E. the bullshit that has been this site for the past 7 years (roflcopter's "design")).

The forums having this style of design lends itself to being spread out. It is entirely possible to integrate the materialish look into the main site because it is open and plain.

But the current front page design is chaotic and does not lend itself well to shoehorning in a forum and a wiki.

The wiki needs to stay separate, maybe a clean bootstrap theme, but the wiki suffers greatly from forced limited width layouts.

But let's be fucking honest shall we? In the decade+ that I have been at this site, the site has been shit. It's always been shit, and any attempts to modernize it have been met with extreme stupidity. Ask yourself, "Do I want the main site redesigned or not?", if the answer is yes, then shut your piehole (Not "you" personally ofc) with the blockading that goes on about it. AF could go on a 20 page rant about this.
#1 Being a "professional" isn't an argument for anything in itself.
Actually it is. Someone who makes their living by doing something like this probably has a better idea and capability of what needs to be done than some random person who like a website to "pop".
#3 Refrain from hostility and become more polite when dealing with feedback. Stop getting "triggered".
He was suggesting that I leave things half assed, his statement also suggested that I had half-assed shit before. You know damn well that I don't half-ass anything (unless it is completely out of my power to do anything about it, and if that is the case, then I bitch to hell and back about it).

Code: Select all

#4 Don't give backhanded non-feedback
gajop
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Re: [website] major upgrades of wiki / forum

Post by gajop »

Emphasizing the difference between the systems is not ideal IMO. I like that we have a single login for everything and wish lobby was also integrated.
Certain forum posts make it to the front page and that's a good thing.
You could argue that player docs on springrts (e.g. https://springrts.com/wiki/Games) don't serve the same purpose as developer API docs, but it's still good that there's a single style because it's so much easier to navigate the entirety of the wiki then. At the same time, the "Media" and "Games" pages are site and wiki respectively, although there's a very close connection to them.
The forums having this style of design lends itself to being spread out. It is entirely possible to integrate the materialish look into the main site because it is open and plain.
So spread it out?
Actually it is. Someone who makes their living by doing something like this probably has a better idea and capability of what needs to be done than some random person who like a website to "pop".
The point is that it's poor argumentation for anything, especially so on the Internet. If you have the knowledge, you can use factual argumentation instead so it's much easier to agree with.
And if you do want to act as a professional, then you should rethink how you deal with user comments. It's very common for users to be negative when new (UI) systems are introduced simply because they're not used to it. Their arguments may not always be good, but you need to improve how you respond (even if that means responding less) to them.
It's not entirely who's right, but who's the user.
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Forboding Angel
Evolution RTS Developer
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Re: [website] major upgrades of wiki / forum

Post by Forboding Angel »

All this aside, you're acting as though the main site is actually coded well... It's a total shitshow. There is a reason no one wants to work with it. If you put it in wordpress where we can actually use standards in design and not some html crap spat out by photoshop ages ago we might get somewhere.

Sure it could be done without WP, but we can do a lot more and actually make the site worth visiting, rather than being a landing page no one gives 2 shits about.
And if you do want to act as a professional, then you should rethink how you deal with user comments. It's very common for users to be negative when new (UI) systems are introduced simply because they're not used to it. Their arguments may not always be good, but you need to improve how you respond (even if that means responding less) to them.
It's not entirely who's right, but who's the user.
None of us are getting paid for any of this (engine, site, games, maps, etc). I'm saying that I do this professionally (web development and design), as do several others on this forum, however, due to the BS that we have to deal with every time we try to work with the site, none of us actually do. I only started fucking with the forum because I wanted it to work worth a shit on mobile. The materialish stuff was born purely out of curiosity and me challenging myself to completely say "FUCK YOU" to a shitty templating system using no other tools than css.

Sadly, it's not perfect, but using only css, it would be difficult to make it perfect, but it is an impressive feat nonetheless.As I have stated before, if you don't like it, comment out the line that calls materialish.css and it's all back to the way it was 3 or 4 days ago.


*************************
Edit after more looking:
The main site literally is a shitshow. It's awful. If I were to work with it I would have to build it from scratch (probably not going to happen as I'm not into masochism). If you put the main site on a platform like wordpress, especially using my framework. Ofc it wouldn't have to be, but my framework is specifically designed to allow for extremely fast design changes without needing to code anything... even layout is all handled within the post content. But that is just one of many options.

Main site layout up top is also terrible: https://i.imgur.com/moC0uCL.png < main site as cards... All css, no coding changes at all. Not very attractive. Layout needs to be entirely redone.
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MasterBel2
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Re: [website] major upgrades of wiki / forum

Post by MasterBel2 »

Forboding Angel wrote:
MasterBel2 wrote:Hmm I'm also not getting an edit button appearing. The other two are there. Weird.
What device, what browser, etc?
Macbook pro 13"
Safari
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Anarchid
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Re: [website] major upgrades of wiki / forum

Post by Anarchid »

Thesis: any piece of technology that has "triggering" maintainers is not worth adopting.
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Anarchid
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Re: [website] major upgrades of wiki / forum

Post by Anarchid »

I have now opened the site in Chrome on Mac. I am not able to edit my posts. There is no menu dropdown, there is no edit button in the absent menu, there is no edit button. Maybe it's a permissions issue with this forum?
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Forboding Angel
Evolution RTS Developer
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Re: [website] major upgrades of wiki / forum

Post by Forboding Angel »

Anarchid wrote:Thesis: any piece of technology that has "triggering" maintainers is not worth adopting.
Gajop was the one that said "triggered", not I. Not sure what his deal is. Tf does that even mean?
Anarchid wrote:I have now opened the site in Chrome on Mac. I am not able to edit my posts. There is no menu dropdown, there is no edit button in the absent menu, there is no edit button. Maybe it's a permissions issue with this forum?
Go to a different forum, like general discussion. This forum has limited permissions.
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PepeAmpere
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Re: [website] major upgrades of wiki / forum

Post by PepeAmpere »

I apologize for not thinking twice before posting my first comment and making forb responsible was everything was cruel shortcut. There were emotions as usual. Only in case of wiki im sure it is step back with current facelift no matter how "standard" is the new solution. Forum colors looks fresh, fonts are nice and maybe there are some features on the back-end which allows you to maintain the page easier.
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PicassoCT
Journeywar Developer & Mapper
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Re: [website] major upgrades of wiki / forum

Post by PicassoCT »

Report bugs, they would report you if they could.
download/file.php?mode=view&id=9941
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smoth
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Re: [website] major upgrades of wiki / forum

Post by smoth »

Just a quick question, are we going to eventually get a non-high contrast theme. For someone like me, and I know I am probably the only one here, this sort of high contrast theme really makes it hard for me to read the forum.
gajop
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Re: [website] major upgrades of wiki / forum

Post by gajop »

I also have a request: would it be possible to have MCP (Moderator Control Panel) accessible from search.php?search_id=unreadposts like it is from the first page?
Less clicking/page loading time when dealing with bulk spam would be nice :wink:
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Forboding Angel
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Re: [website] major upgrades of wiki / forum

Post by Forboding Angel »

smoth wrote:Just a quick question, are we going to eventually get a non-high contrast theme.
Abma won't allow for multiple user choosable themes due to "maintenance (I wanted to make it so that in your UserCP, you could simply flip a switch and have your left side avatars back), even though all they would be is css overrides, so zero maintenance would be needed which invalidates his entire point (element names don't change, because if you change forum element names than all those themes that are so proud of get instantly broken... ALL of them. So no, maintenance isn't an issue), but basically, no.

Solution:
Whatever adblocker you use for your browser, just block the file "materialish.css" and everything will magically go back to how it was.

gajop wrote:I also have a request: would it be possible to have MCP (Moderator Control Panel) accessible from search.php?search_id=unreadposts like it is from the first page?
Less clicking/page loading time when dealing with bulk spam would be nice :wink:
Probably possible, but I'm not sure I feel like digging into the guts of phpbb. This forum software is a tragedy of coding fail and should be burned. Le Sigh. I'll look at it at some point. You would think that it would just be a link in the forum header, but I suspect that the forum is detecting where you are and if that location has any relevant moderator functions and enables/disables the link based upon that, which btw, is fucking stupid because the MCP is the MCP no matter what your current location is... I'm sure it seemed like a good idea at the time.
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Silentwings
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Re: [website] major upgrades of wiki / forum

Post by Silentwings »

because the MCP is the MCP no matter what your current location is
Back in the days when I had only had sticky/announce/etc rights on the BA subforum, whether or not I could access it did depend on which forum I was viewing.
are we going to eventually get...
Fwiw, to reiterate as I see it the main bad parts of the change are:
(1) wiki lost its nav bar,
(2) wiki colours are fucked, and this really ought to have been a blocker to the changes being applied,
(3) main page colour scheme/style does not match forum, despite being presented as the front page of the forum and sharing content.

Since these are all regressions, I also have the impression (from their content) that the changes were not finished. Is that the case or was what we have now intended to be set live?
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smoth
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Re: [website] major upgrades of wiki / forum

Post by smoth »

Forboding Angel wrote:
smoth wrote:Just a quick question, are we going to eventually get a non-high contrast theme.
Abma won't allow for multiple user choosable themes due to "maintenance (I wanted to make it so that in your UserCP, you could simply flip a switch and have your left side avatars back), even though all they would be is css overrides, so zero maintenance would be needed which invalidates his entire point (element names don't change, because if you change forum element names than all those themes that are so proud of get instantly broken... ALL of them. So no, maintenance isn't an issue), but basically, no.

Solution:
Whatever adblocker you use for your browser, just block the file "materialish.css" and everything will magically go back to how it was.
so we are now a white forum, forever?
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