Spring RTS Engine

hawkki · Post by **hawkki** » 16 Jun 2006, 20:35

Do you guys remember original TA had a way of choosing three different LOS options. IIRC they were circular, true and infinite.

I really would like to have this as an option in spring too. At least i would like to be able to turn infinite LOS on.

Would this be hard to code ?

Please, consider adding this in the next version!

hawkki · Post by **hawkki** » 30 Jun 2006, 15:56

so how is it? Could somebody please answer? This could not be more then a 15 minute work for some who manages coding ?

Pretty please ?

AF · Post by AF » 30 Jun 2006, 16:00

It can be done but atm there are more rpessing matters.

Somethign as simple as this you could setup yourself, just submit a patch.

hawkki · Post by **hawkki** » 10 Jul 2006, 18:30

Well, if i provide you with the patch to make spring toggleable LOS on/infinite would it be implemented in the lobby so that you could actually use it when hosting ?

There's no motivation on doing anything if you don't know if it's good enough for "the big boys" to be accepted.

Post by **jcnossen** » 10 Jul 2006, 18:46

Well, if you make it an option and implement it with clean code, there shouldn't be any reason not to include it. And if it isn't clean, we keep reviewing it until it is :)

KDR_11k · Post by **KDR_11k** » 10 Jul 2006, 19:13

I have this hunch that this option will be used mostly by Speedmetal servers...

Drone_Fragger · Post by **Drone_Fragger** » 10 Jul 2006, 19:36

Correct.

hawkki · Post by **hawkki** » 10 Jul 2006, 19:58

KDR_11k wrote:I have this hunch that this option will be used mostly by Speedmetal servers...

I cannot believe you :D
Could you, for once, throw away your attitude and think what this would enable in terms of tactics. It would bring much more actual battle, tanks against tanks, bertha/nuke whoring down, flearush earlygame away. What would remain is pure actual encounter of fighting units.

Does it feel right to you that a unit pops out infront of a tank out-of-nowhere ? Is this anyway near reality? I agree, a los multiplier would also do the trick, but then the multiplying value should be somewhere around 2-3. I must look into it and see if a los multiplier would be easier to implement.

The thing i want is realism, and in reality units just don't disappear like that into nowhere.

KDR_11k · Post by **KDR_11k** » 10 Jul 2006, 20:06

This is near reality. TA is a lot about information warfare. Of course it's not to scale as unit sight and range is too small for reality (tanks have ranges of ~4 km IIRC) but to fire at targets near the end of your range you MUST have spotters. Pure tank forces aren't an option, not even in reality. By the time you spot the enemy it's too late. Especially if you spot the enemy in an area that has direct line of fire to your weaker armor areas.

Theotherguy · Post by **Theotherguy** » 10 Jul 2006, 22:26

yes, in reality most vehicular combat is done out of visual range of the target, and spotters are used to pinpoint their exact location....but from an overlord point of view as in TA it does look a bit silly to have them pop out of nowhere.

j5mello · Post by **j5mello** » 11 Jul 2006, 05:01

guys its an option calm down. Plz for the love of ARM if u don't want to play with it don't.

Jeez why is it when someone suggests things that could change how the game plays they freak out. the key part of his post was that its an OPTION. as in its optional so u don't have to use it. Im sure there are game (-modes) out there that use unlimited los.

Argh · Post by **Argh** » 11 Jul 2006, 06:25

I am all for optional things, especially when they might enhance gameplay and give us a better option in terms of speed. LOS calculations are non-trivial in the Spring engine.

Warlord Zsinj · Post by **Warlord Zsinj** » 13 Jul 2006, 14:25

As an option, sure.

But with regards to the speedmetal argument; I don't think that full LOS can possibly add to strategy in any way, shape or form. The entire premise of LOS is that by not being able to see what you are enemy is doing, you are unable to predict his every move. This, I believe, is absolutely essential for true strategy to proceed.

And yes, the ability to increase your knowledge of your enemy, and hence increase your ability to predict what he is up too is a really fundamental strategy that would be lost.

AF · Post by AF » 13 Jul 2006, 14:28

This is a pretty much standard RTS option so i think it should be included for that reason alone.

BoredJoe · Post by **BoredJoe** » 13 Jul 2006, 16:11

I spose its ok to add as an option, I doubt i would ever use it though tbh- takes a lot away from the game. From an AA point of view: Why build a nuke when the enemy can plainly see what i'm doing and build anti in half the time. Why go lvl 3 if the enemy can build doomsdays to cover his base in half the time. Why attack at all if you know the enemy can take your attack out? I can see this option causing either short games where at the start (first 5-20 minutes) weaknesses in bases are heavily exploited and players taken out quickly OR very long drawn out games where both sides know what each other are doing and constantly countering each other before their oponents have even started building enough units for that strategy to work.

SwiftSpear · Post by **SwiftSpear** » 13 Jul 2006, 16:44

This kind of thing should be mod side. Modders don't spend the hours defining the sight radius for each unit just so someone can turn it all off. That's totally game breaking.

Comp1337 · Post by **Comp1337** » 13 Jul 2006, 17:07

Lobby option tbh. Its not like the good players (Or the ones that want to be good) will disable LOS. Its a critical part of the game.