Remove minimum map hardness - Page 3

Remove minimum map hardness

Requests for features in the spring code.

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Google_Frog
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Joined: 12 Oct 2007, 09:24

Re: Remove minimum map hardness

Post by Google_Frog »

How is this still not fixed?

Here is a patch for spring/rts/Map/MapInfo.cpp that should restore the old behaviour.
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mapinfo.cpp
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hoijui
Former Engine Dev
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Joined: 22 Sep 2007, 09:51

Re: Remove minimum map hardness

Post by hoijui »

but.. this is not a patch, but a file.
is it based on master (which revision?) or release?
to see what you actually did, i would have to diff the in-source file with your version in the right branch...
actually everyone who would want to see what you changed would have to do that.
-> bad way to supply a patch.

we prefer patches through git, where all of this can not possibly happen.
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Kloot
Spring Developer
Posts: 1865
Joined: 08 Oct 2006, 16:58

Re: Remove minimum map hardness

Post by Kloot »

How is this still not fixed?
Because 1) we don't work at your leisure and 2) it's not broken?

Non-positive hardness values are disallowed for a reason.
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zwzsg
Kernel Panic Co-Developer
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Re: Remove minimum map hardness

Post by zwzsg »

And what is that reason?
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Kloot
Spring Developer
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Re: Remove minimum map hardness

Post by Kloot »

Hardness appears as the denominator in several divisions whose results do not make sense (and would have to be analyzed for their impact on the simulation) when its value is negative and are undefined when it is zero.
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Google_Frog
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Re: Remove minimum map hardness

Post by Google_Frog »

This change is when hardness became limited to positives (or 0).
https://github.com/spring/spring/commit ... 401#diff-2

Where in that is hardness now required to be positive? I had experienced no errors with earlier versions of Spring that did not limit hardness to positives. Though there are many commits between each release so it may be required for earlier or later things.

The nature of the change looks like hardness was thrown in there as something it would be logical to clamp. But as far as I can tell there is no reason to disallow any values except for 0. Btw the clamp permits 0 which is broken no matter how you look at it.

The only thing hardness should affect is explosion terrain deformation. If there is negative hardness the explosions are merely inverted. What is wrong with that?
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Forboding Angel
Evolution RTS Developer
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Re: Remove minimum map hardness

Post by Forboding Angel »

Image
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Google_Frog
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Re: Remove minimum map hardness

Post by Google_Frog »

I don't get it.

0/u is perfectly fine, it is 0.
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zerver
Spring Developer
Posts: 1358
Joined: 16 Dec 2006, 20:59

Re: Remove minimum map hardness

Post by zerver »

Yeah, the change was because 0 hardness would cause a div by zero. I did not know negative values were of any real use. We can change it to allow it if you want.
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Google_Frog
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Re: Remove minimum map hardness

Post by Google_Frog »

zerver wrote:Yeah, the change was because 0 hardness would cause a div by zero. I did not know negative values were of any real use. We can change it to allow it if you want.
Well yes that would be good. Something has to be done anyway because negative hardness is rounded back up to 0, this causes a crash.

And sorry about coming across as belligerent. But this is a few line fix that hasn't been looked at at all for almost a year.
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hoijui
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Re: Remove minimum map hardness

Post by hoijui »

"i want minimum map hardness < 0!"
goes reads codes -> change value from 0 to MIN_INT -> added 10 bugs
"devs are stupid, could have done that 10 years ago, cost me no time really!!"
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zerver
Spring Developer
Posts: 1358
Joined: 16 Dec 2006, 20:59

Re: Remove minimum map hardness

Post by zerver »

Google_Frog wrote:Something has to be done anyway because negative hardness is rounded back up to 0, this causes a crash.
https://github.com/spring/spring/commit ... 879eeedb83

The value is actually clamped to >= 0.001, so shouldn't crash, but if you say so...
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HeadHunter
Posts: 53
Joined: 15 May 2007, 12:33

Re: Remove minimum map hardness

Post by HeadHunter »

As a player - I have to remind you that Spring is the only RTS engine nowdays that supports terrain deformation. I hope it stays this way. It is a 8) UNIQUE 8) feature! You should not just throw it away because BA guys think its no cool.

Regarding visual FX - current cratering is indeed ugly. BUT. Is not SM3 going to fix the rendering problems in a sense that it already creates map by dynamic blending? I mean if we add another texture stage called damage, and then make empty blendmap, where engine would add points upon explosion so that damage texture can be blended in? Or is it not the way it works?
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MidKnight
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Re: Remove minimum map hardness

Post by MidKnight »

HeadHunter wrote:Regarding visual FX - current cratering is indeed ugly. BUT. Is not SM3 going to fix the rendering problems in a sense that it already creates map by dynamic blending? I mean if we add another texture stage called damage, and then make empty blendmap, where engine would add points upon explosion so that damage texture can be blended in? Or is it not the way it works?
Image

SM3's dead, man. :?
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Argh
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Re: Remove minimum map hardness

Post by Argh »

Actually, last time I tested it, it worked the best it ever has- it was faster than SSMF over here. That said, yes, it's dead.
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Google_Frog
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Re: Remove minimum map hardness

Post by Google_Frog »

There must have been a reason for restricting it in the first place. What was the reason?
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Google_Frog
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Re: Remove minimum map hardness

Post by Google_Frog »

Bump.

Maps with minimum hardness are broken with the clamp anyway, what is the worst that could happen if it is removed?
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zerver
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Re: Remove minimum map hardness

Post by zerver »

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Pxtl
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Re: Remove minimum map hardness

Post by Pxtl »

Y'know, in hindsight the variable probably should've been the inverse - "softness", which would avoid all the discontinuities and div/0 frustrations.
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SinbadEV
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Re: Remove minimum map hardness

Post by SinbadEV »

Pxtl wrote:Y'know, in hindsight the variable probably should've been the inverse - "softness", which would avoid all the discontinuities and div/0 frustrations.
...code needs comments that are percolated up to some kind of automatically generated documentation for game devs...

so the valid values are what now? -1.0 to 1.0 with anything > -0.001 and <= 0 being rounded to -0.001 and anything < 0.001 and > 0 being rounded to 0.001 with 1.0 representing no deformability and -1.0 representing infinite deformability?... wouldn't that make -1.0 an invalid value too?
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