Why can't Tanks go backwards?
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Re: Why can't Tanks go backwards?
perhaps units would only move backwards if the next waypoint is near their back? This way you can get stuck vehicles out from in between buildings but for longer distances they will drive normal.
edit: wops, I think thats what Tobi meant. well it seems c&c generals does it this way...
edit: wops, I think thats what Tobi meant. well it seems c&c generals does it this way...
Re: Why can't Tanks go backwards?
There's no distance limit with your approach, a tank that's facing south when ordered to the north edge of the map will always drive backwards and at every waypoint decide its back is closer to the next waypoint so it'll keep driving backwards.knorke wrote:perhaps units would only move backwards if the next waypoint is near their back? This way you can get stuck vehicles out from in between buildings but for longer distances they will drive normal.
edit: wops, I think thats what Tobi meant. well it seems c&c generals does it this way...
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Re: Why can't Tanks go backwards?
What do you do in a car if you want to turn really fast?
Go backwards and stear right. Stop, go forwards and stear left. That is what i spoke before does.
I think what knorke is talking about is detecting if the next waypoint is close enough that it is not worth bothering to turn around. (Of course, if there are more waypoints after, being in the right direction/having speed at that point might be useful.)
Go backwards and stear right. Stop, go forwards and stear left. That is what i spoke before does.
I think what knorke is talking about is detecting if the next waypoint is close enough that it is not worth bothering to turn around. (Of course, if there are more waypoints after, being in the right direction/having speed at that point might be useful.)
Re: Why can't Tanks go backwards?
with "waypoint" i meant the ones set by the player with clicking or shift-clicking, not something calculated by the spring pathfinder. maybe "destination" is a better word?
For long distance travels tanks would still turn on the spot and then drive off as they currently do.
For more complex reverse maneuvers you could click behind the unit so it keeps moving backwards and doesnt slow down to turn: for example you want to micro a unit out of danger or run down infantry (I think in S44 this works?)
If some slow-turning unit (battleships, large tanks etc) is to move only a few meters backward, reverse is faster than turning 180°. Of course if the unit is suppossed to move across half the map then it should turn: in that case the timeloss is not that important anyway.
For long distance travels tanks would still turn on the spot and then drive off as they currently do.
For more complex reverse maneuvers you could click behind the unit so it keeps moving backwards and doesnt slow down to turn: for example you want to micro a unit out of danger or run down infantry (I think in S44 this works?)
If some slow-turning unit (battleships, large tanks etc) is to move only a few meters backward, reverse is faster than turning 180°. Of course if the unit is suppossed to move across half the map then it should turn: in that case the timeloss is not that important anyway.
Re: Why can't Tanks go backwards?
Of course for some units (like ships) reverse doesn't make any sense.
Re: Why can't Tanks go backwards?
Yes it does? Spaceships no, but water ships maneuverable enough to turn nearly in place should also be able to point those screws backwards.
Re: Why can't Tanks go backwards?
Voith-Schneider propulsion! I've said it before and I'll say it again
Re: Why can't Tanks go backwards?
Most any kind of ship using screw propulsion can reverse. Even old XIX century steamers could do that. Voith-Schneider allows turns in place and generally good maneuverability, but it isn't required for simple reversing.
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Re: Why can't Tanks go backwards?
even then, V-S cannot make a battleship turn in place. Its a maneuverability AID, not a magic wand.
Re: Why can't Tanks go backwards?
Realism does not have a place in Spring.Pressure Line wrote:even then, V-S cannot make a battleship turn in place. Its a maneuverability AID, not a magic wand.
Re: Why can't Tanks go backwards?
Surely it makes more sense to include manual reversing in the engine (its simple and unambiguous) and then gadgets/widgets can automate it (seeing as ideal behaviour is dependant on a lot of things).KDR_11k wrote:If it's completely manual you can just as well gadget it, either use COB to turn the visual unit 180° (while also turning the unit 180° so it looks the same but internally faces the other way) or use movectrl.momfreeek wrote:Shouldn't reverse be a seperate command? Leave it to the player to decide when he wants his troops to use reverse.
Re: Why can't Tanks go backwards?
Is it possible like knorke proposed? How easy is the integration?
I think Panzers is a good example as well, even though the game is very different.
E: http://www.voithturbo.de/545950.htm :D
I think Panzers is a good example as well, even though the game is very different.
E: http://www.voithturbo.de/545950.htm :D
Re: Why can't Tanks go backwards?
Didn't you have a unit in GINTA which walks backwards? I'm pretty sure your lolinfantry did.KDR_11k wrote:If it's completely manual you can just as well gadget it, either use COB to turn the visual unit 180° (while also turning the unit 180° so it looks the same but internally faces the other way) or use movectrl.momfreeek wrote:Shouldn't reverse be a seperate command? Leave it to the player to decide when he wants his troops to use reverse.
Re: Why can't Tanks go backwards?
That was just to get a 360° weapon arc without having exorcist-style torso turns.rattle wrote:Didn't you have a unit in GINTA which walks backwards? I'm pretty sure your lolinfantry did.KDR_11k wrote:If it's completely manual you can just as well gadget it, either use COB to turn the visual unit 180° (while also turning the unit 180° so it looks the same but internally faces the other way) or use movectrl.momfreeek wrote:Shouldn't reverse be a seperate command? Leave it to the player to decide when he wants his troops to use reverse.
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Re: Why can't Tanks go backwards?
IOW it was a fancy animation script.
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- MC: Legacy & Spring 1944 Developer
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Re: Why can't Tanks go backwards?
I like knorke's idea of reversing only when moving small distances; longer distances will turn the tank around.
A combination would be similar to Supcom; if told to go backwards a wheeled unit will reverse in a circle then drive forwards.. err, like a normal car.
Speaking of which it DOESN'T make sense for wheeled vehicles to turn on the spot.
A combination would be similar to Supcom; if told to go backwards a wheeled unit will reverse in a circle then drive forwards.. err, like a normal car.
Speaking of which it DOESN'T make sense for wheeled vehicles to turn on the spot.
Re: Why can't Tanks go backwards?
btw lua has read access to the pathfinding waypoints (+heightmap +cob to start the move animation)
Re: Why can't Tanks go backwards?
here's an idea that would be fairly easy to implement.
if (time taken to turn) > (time taken to move to location backwards)
move backwards
else
turn, move forwards
this is a 4d algorithm that should be fairly easy
time taken to turn can be based off the respective variable
time taken to move is the speed x sum of pathfinding point length to the clicked spot(pathfinding points)
this method will ensure that the unit will get to the position as fast as possible
other things to take into calculation would be the desired angle the unit will rest in
EDIT: also on another point, an inbuilt arc limit for units such as kbots should be built in where they change animations to say, a side walk animation
if (time taken to turn) > (time taken to move to location backwards)
move backwards
else
turn, move forwards
this is a 4d algorithm that should be fairly easy
time taken to turn can be based off the respective variable
time taken to move is the speed x sum of pathfinding point length to the clicked spot(pathfinding points)
this method will ensure that the unit will get to the position as fast as possible
other things to take into calculation would be the desired angle the unit will rest in
EDIT: also on another point, an inbuilt arc limit for units such as kbots should be built in where they change animations to say, a side walk animation