DSD or big games discussion - Page 2

DSD or big games discussion

Please use this forum to set up matches and discuss played games.

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zalaad
Posts: 7
Joined: 24 Feb 2015, 23:47

Re: Whats happening with BA?

Post by zalaad »

smoth wrote: Image
yeah, only 1 server.. with people playing...
Are you serious ? I saw that about 10 years ago...

And you know what ? In your example, there is no 8v8 game !!!

You are demonstrating what we tried to say !
Last edited by zalaad on 25 Feb 2015, 23:25, edited 1 time in total.
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FabriceFABS
Posts: 351
Joined: 28 Jul 2010, 16:20

Re: Whats happening with BA?

Post by FabriceFABS »

smoth, he's simply hurted that SpringRTS is so fabulous and got the regret that such a (good) made work will result in only 1 game in general, 8v8 and have to wait 2 hours for another (smaller) game, etcetc.
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smoth
Posts: 22306
Joined: 13 Jan 2005, 00:46

Re: Whats happening with BA?

Post by smoth »

zalaad wrote:
smoth wrote: Image
yeah, only 1 server.. with people playing...
Are you serious ? I saw that about 10 years ago...
Saw what? DSD didn't exist in 2005, and I just checked, it was created sometime in 06...
zalaad wrote:And you know what ? In your example, there is no 8v8 game !!!
Why does it need to. Please complete your thoughts.
zalaad wrote:You are demonstrating what we tried to say !
What precisely is that? your posts are not making a lot of sense.
zalaad
Posts: 7
Joined: 24 Feb 2015, 23:47

Re: Whats happening with BA?

Post by zalaad »

I'm sad.
raaar
Metal Factions Developer
Posts: 861
Joined: 20 Feb 2010, 12:17

Re: Whats happening with BA?

Post by raaar »

people flocking to the same overcrowded room instead of joining other rooms is something that i see happening in all spring games.

maybe the room hosts could automatically make suggestions on game modes (how many players per team, or ffa) or other game rooms running in the same server.

a human logs into the spring server and wants to play as fast as possible, what is he going to do?

More people usually means more pressure to start, so he'll join the room with the most players.

there are often rooms with less players, but no information about intent. What's the team size they are looking for? Are they waiting for something or someone? Are they almost ready to go?

maybe the human would join a 2v2 or even 1v1 room with 1 player left to start instead of the room with most players if he knew about it.

We could use improved status messages about game rooms, with target team size and number of players left to start.
NeOmega
Posts: 63
Joined: 15 Dec 2010, 11:06

Re: Whats happening with BA?

Post by NeOmega »

When I first started, there were games going on at all hours.
Not anymore.

I played a lot, but smurfs and trolls. What assholes.

The development team has gone backwards. The game has gotten laggier and laggier.

And then the most recent version changed so many things, I just found it frustrating.

All in all, though, i just don't see the point anymore. I am not using hyperbole when I say half of B.A. players are real jerks.

User was warned for this post. Felonies 1 & 2 - please try to be constructive. (Silentwings)
zalaad
Posts: 7
Joined: 24 Feb 2015, 23:47

Re: Whats happening with BA?

Post by zalaad »

NeOmega wrote: User was warned for this post. Felonies 1 & 2 - please try to be constructive. (Silentwings)
When you don't like the message, shoot the messenger !
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Silentwings
Moderator
Posts: 3666
Joined: 25 Oct 2008, 00:23

Re: DSD discussion

Post by Silentwings »

Insulting me is not going to help your cause afaics, zalaad. If you need information on what felonies 1&2 are, https://springrts.com/wiki/Felony.
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Jazcash
Posts: 5302
Joined: 08 Dec 2007, 17:39

Re: DSD discussion

Post by Jazcash »

The majority of games I've played, especially indie ones, tend to have this one map that gets played waaayyy more than anything else. In Quake Live it was Campgrounds, in Warsow it's wca1 and in BA it's DSD. I don't know the exact reasons why this phenomena occurs, but it would definitely be an interesting thing to properly research and explain.

For me personally, the only reason I put up with playing the same map for so long is because I have no other choice, and not playing the map would likely mean not playing the game at all due to a majority wishing to play the same map over and over.

A healthy solution for BA that doesn't involve forcing server owners' hands would be to get a group of players to agree to not play DSD and to instead wait on another server that doesn't have the possibility of switching to DSD. This would only really work well if you got enough DSD usuals to agree to do this, which might be quite difficult. Eventually, at some point in time, the non-DSD group will be the server with the most players open, and people will choose to join this server over DSD as it has more chance of starting sooner, which is what most people look for (imo).

Would be interested to hear other people's ideas and thoughts to deal with this problem (and it is a problem) that doesn't include any hacky solutions like forcing servers to comply or banning DSD.

I always had the intention of returning to Spring when BAR got into full-swing with active hosts and regular players, but if it's just going to end up back on 8v8 DSD I'm really not sure I want to. It's driven so many active players away and will continue to do so, quite a shame.
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PicassoCT
Journeywar Developer & Mapper
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Joined: 24 Jan 2006, 21:12

Re: DSD discussion

Post by PicassoCT »

I guess the fear of this happening to zero-k is what drives Lichos Matchmaking
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Anarchid
Posts: 1383
Joined: 30 Nov 2008, 04:31

Re: DSD discussion

Post by Anarchid »

I don't know the exact reasons why this phenomena occurs, but it would definitely be an interesting thing to properly research and exploit
FTFY. Fwiw, that's what DOTA did.

I think BADSD should just become a separate game.
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FabriceFABS
Posts: 351
Joined: 28 Jul 2010, 16:20

Re: DSD discussion

Post by FabriceFABS »

raaar wrote:...there are often rooms with less players, but no information about intent. What's the team size they are looking for? Are they waiting for something or someone? Are they almost ready to go?
This is actually the case (AFAIC) : Map filtering (starting points + size) with max team size allowed.
So players on such games' lobbies know what the game they're wait for.
raaar wrote:people flocking to the same overcrowded room instead of joining other rooms is something that i see happening in all spring games.
In life exactly, not only on games.
raaar wrote:maybe the human would join a 2v2 or even 1v1 room with 1 player left to start instead of the room with most players if he knew about it.
No, for 3 most reasons :
  • People attracts people or players attracts players if you prefer.
    I remember going to a pub filled to 80%, while another one side of the sidewalk, just as beautiful, was completed at let's say 10%...
    Why I've made this choice? I do not know ...
  • Big games strategy is not the same tactic than smaller games,
  • Don't want to loose quickly.
I think that above 4v4 results in a «SimCity» / «PORCing» and so on... gaming is so different from smaller games.
raaar wrote:We could use improved status messages about game rooms, with target team size and number of players left to start.
Well thanks to Bluestone, Dansan, Abma and Braindamage for their work for openBattle widget.
What about a project for showing something like this on any game lobby ? Could be interesting.
Jazcash wrote:...A healthy solution for BA that doesn't involve forcing server owners' hands would be to get a group of players to agree to not play DSD and to instead wait on another server that doesn't have the possibility of switching to DSD. This would only really work well if you got enough DSD usuals to agree to do this, which might be quite difficult. Eventually, at some point in time, the non-DSD group will be the server with the most players open, and people will choose to join this server over DSD as it has more chance of starting sooner, which is what most people look for (imo).
No bothering again, but what about have a serious reflexion on spec limit to16 (-or less- it will be a nice effort from the excessive 128 value) + autolock running games then ?
Jazcash wrote:Would be interested to hear other people's ideas and thoughts to deal with this problem (and it is a problem) that doesn't include any hacky solutions like forcing servers to comply or banning DSD.
I always had the intention of returning to Spring when BAR got into full-swing with active hosts and regular players, but if it's just going to end up back on 8v8 DSD I'm really not sure I want to. It's driven so many active players away and will continue to do so, quite a shame.
Just the hope this topic won't be lock to continue talking about it.
So much (good, sympactic, long-time played...) players left since 2009.

We must put all our chances to inspire new players to stay.
Greetings.
klapmongool
Posts: 843
Joined: 13 Aug 2007, 13:19

Re: DSD discussion

Post by klapmongool »

Jazcash wrote:
A healthy solution for BA that doesn't involve forcing server owners' hands would be to get a group of players to agree to not play DSD and to instead wait on another server that doesn't have the possibility of switching to DSD. This would only really work well if you got enough DSD usuals to agree to do this, which might be quite difficult. Eventually, at some point in time, the non-DSD group will be the server with the most players open, and people will choose to join this server over DSD as it has more chance of starting sooner, which is what most people look for (imo).
Did pretty much this many times, and it works. The main problem was that I would have to start every day from scratch (because somewhere in 24h all servers are empty).
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Silentwings
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Re: DSD or big games discussion

Post by Silentwings »

@klap and others who, now or in the past, spent time setting up small team games:

Do you think it would help to have a BA channel? In fact there already is one, but pretty much unused - so what I mean is a channel to which people who joined the BA autohosts were auto-joined too? Obviously there is also the downside that some players might object to being auto-joined into #ba.
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Jazcash
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Joined: 08 Dec 2007, 17:39

Re: DSD or big games discussion

Post by Jazcash »

You should do pickups! Warsow has these every day and I really look forward to them. I think it keeps the game alive tbh.

If you're not familiar with pickups, they're essentially just organised games on-the-fly. You have a bot that keeps track of players who want to play who can use IRC commands like !add 5v5. In this case of 5v5, when 10 people are added, it pings all the players who are added and tells them the server to join.

I'd be happy to come on and set one up and help you guys out with it and perhaps play a few pickups if you like.

You could use this: https://pypickupbot.readthedocs.org/en/ ... onfig.html
klapmongool
Posts: 843
Joined: 13 Aug 2007, 13:19

Re: DSD or big games discussion

Post by klapmongool »

Just PM'ed people I knew might be interested and some would join and idle with me. If people can join a channel they can join a host too. Just need people who are willing to put the time in every day and wait for people to come.
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Funkencool
Posts: 542
Joined: 02 Dec 2011, 22:31

Re: DSD or big games discussion

Post by Funkencool »

The new UT has a pretty cool feature called Hubs (might not be original). Basically, It's one room with multiple matches but shared chat (not sure to what extant). For instance there might be multiple small deathmatchs, but one could easily challenge another to a 1v1 while staying in this hub.

I think if people could still share/chat with a larger group; they would be more apt to play smaller matches.
ShockWave
Posts: 20
Joined: 07 Mar 2015, 20:42

Re: DSD or big games discussion

Post by ShockWave »

Hi to everyone, as first post in the forum!
I need to write or my account will be purged again, and this is the perfect post!
FabriceFABS wrote:
Well, welcome back.
Keep playing DSD ? Not exatly >> Keep joining 8v8 instead with DSD map or not.
More games = more spec (possibilities), right ?

[*]Limit the maximum number of players in a game (should be really < 8v8),
We've already tried to setup small rooms, even with rules to discard players
by their TS, too low or too high, was a fail for 2 reason:


1) small games are loved by clan
2) most of people refuses to play into a small team, specially low skilled players.
They feel themselve protected into a big team, and viceversa, in a large
team a noob won't cause an epic drama, like it would be in a small team.
FabriceFABS wrote: [*]Limit the maximum number of spectators (<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< 128),
[*]And finally when joining a running game won't be possible,[/list]
Spring will go much much better, like some others RTS games ?
I repeat what was already written here:
In the past there were spectators limits with these effects:
increase of clicks in the X icon in the top bar of springlobby, because
none likes to wait hours watching a list of rooms, ready to click to get
your only opportunity to join the game, when game ends and someone quits.

In the case of quit with running game, you couldn't rejoin the game.

So why aren't they filling other rooms? because most of them are just
afk or want to spectate only.

Spectating games and insulting players within spectators comments is funny, at least
you have a bit of amusement if you weren't lucky enough to get a place, and in that
meantime you can try to start another game, asking other spectators to join other rooms,
otherwise you are forced to wait idle into an empty room.
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PicassoCT
Journeywar Developer & Mapper
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Joined: 24 Jan 2006, 21:12

Re: DSD or big games discussion

Post by PicassoCT »

mmh.. so basically - spectrating is the new haning out in the lobby, waiting for a game to get together..?

that is interesting..

So people demand a game of theire choice to be running in lobby background, to praise the might khoor - god of blood and thunder.
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FabriceFABS
Posts: 351
Joined: 28 Jul 2010, 16:20

Re: DSD or big games discussion

Post by FabriceFABS »

ShockWave wrote:Hi to everyone, as first post in the forum!
I need to write or my account will be purged again, and this is the perfect post!
Hi,
ShockWave wrote:We've already tried to setup small rooms,
We ? Who ? Where ? When ? How long ? What setup exatly ?
I'd be glad to receive an invitation at this time for a talk.
This is a long job and it will give results after a certain time, not after a day.
Simply because old players should be really-really be more mixed in others games with new players.
ShockWave wrote:even with rules to discard players
by their TS, too low or too high, was a fail for 2 reason:


1) small games are loved by clan
2) most of people refuses to play into a small team, specially low skilled players.
They feel themselve protected into a big team, and viceversa, in a large
team a noob won't cause an epic drama, like it would be in a small team.
1) Yes, but not only,
2) I think low skill players are less shy to join smaller games too simply because the big team -bad- effect
is not here. Even if they feel protected, this is not a solution to leave a newbie in a corner of a big game.
If a noob fails in a big team result is the same : Entry point and with for quite sure 2,5kM present.
ShockWave wrote:I repeat what was already written here:
In the past there were spectators limits with these effects:
increase of clicks in the X icon in the top bar of springlobby, because
none likes to wait hours watching a list of rooms, ready to click to get
your only opportunity to join the game, when game ends and someone quits.
128 spec limit is a really silly value. 10-12 specs are really enough.
What you say is false : a 8v8 game runs at least from 35 to more than 60 mins somtimes.
Firstly you wait this, after you should have the chance to pick a free place between 10 potentials players between 20 specs ?
No chance, not this time ? Let's wait again !! ROTF... Are you serious ?
ShockWave wrote:In the case of quit with running game, you couldn't rejoin the game.

So why aren't they filling other rooms? because most of them are just
afk or want to spectate only.
Why quitting-rejoining action ?
In case of a client-pc failure it's possible to unlock the game for temp entrance.
ShockWave wrote:Spectating games and insulting players within spectators comments is funny, at least
you have a bit of amusement if you weren't lucky enough to get a place, and in that
meantime you can try to start another game, asking other spectators to join other rooms,
otherwise you are forced to wait idle into an empty room.
Well, years ago (I saw some players receiving) I suffered public insults, blaming from specs and also from players.
THIS is really annoying.
Do you think that newbie playing right there will stay in time ?

For the final word, new players should say to their friends to rejoin Spring, otherwise Spring (BA) will be left to a pool of 15~20 players with never-ending new players that don't want to stay.
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