Skirmish AI: E323AI 3.22.4 - Page 37

Skirmish AI: E323AI 3.22.4

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AF
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Re: Skirmish AI: E323AI 3.22.4

Post by AF » 14 Dec 2010, 13:23

- NOTA disables some units in the t1 lab menu before you have t2 com. We call them t1.5 units. This AI is still able to order them - this is minor.
Theyre disabled in the UI correct? Im afraid if thats the only means of disabling them, then you have a multiplayer cheat exploit on your hands, as a widget should be able to issue the orders too. A gadget based fix should be necessary
- Saw commander stuck forever in weird state with unit being built at 0% completion. This does not seem common so its minor.
I've seen this in Shard also in Evolution, and at the time those complaining said that they'd gotten the same issue with multiplayer too with no AIs, but that right clicking on the 0% nanoframe resumed building. Reproducing it isn't so easy, as I've yet to find a reliable stimulus, and I did not get any reports from the latest engine versions.
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hoijui
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Re: Skirmish AI: E323AI 3.22.4

Post by hoijui » 14 Dec 2010, 13:27

the commander stuck for ever on building is an engine problem, and zerver made a fix for it already. though... i remember having it seen fail in an other way now, at least once :/
con was blocking the ground where it wanted to build, but acted as if not, and tried to build. this failed, and the command was discharged. i guess that this is still favorable then stuck for ever, at least for AIs. :-)
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FaerieWithBoots
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Re: Skirmish AI: E323AI 3.22.4

Post by FaerieWithBoots » 14 Dec 2010, 13:36

E3232ai builds windgens on cometcatcher in v24, that can't be right :-)
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slogic
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Re: Skirmish AI: E323AI 3.22.4

Post by slogic » 14 Dec 2010, 14:01

FaerieWithBoots wrote:E3232ai builds windgens on cometcatcher in v24, that can't be right :-)
Because there is no WIND tag in categorization file for them. But the source code contains a switcher for units with this tag. I found this after switching to mentioned above categorization scheme. There are much more missed tags.
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Umrug
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Re: Skirmish AI: E323AI 3.22.4

Post by Umrug » 15 Dec 2010, 02:05

slogic wrote:All these concerning NOTA gameplay? I did not test latest versions with NOTA and any other mod except BA due to lack of man power & time. Also config files for all mods except BA are not updated & i have no time to monitor other game changes. I'm already finished patch-categorization files support & now improving unit auto-categorization algorithm. Main categorization file won't be required to be updated manually.
- The critical scout suicide behavior is also in BA. The bad economy is also in BA. Those two were the most important characteristics of this AI, pity to see them broken.

- I'm not sure why are you so worried about auto-generated categorization files - the reason I even tested this is that I wanted to make good NOTA config (the original BA config was made by me btw) - but seeing the aforementioned critical bugs I stopped, since the AI is quite handicapped by them atm.

- Can you please manually remove the TECH2 tag on "corbase" unit in NOTA config, to allow it to play NOTA as core - before I make a better config?

- Currently I have some time and motivation to help you with this AI testing and configuration-wise, tell me if you are interested. Note that I also helped Error323 during the initial development of this AI.
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slogic
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Re: Skirmish AI: E323AI 3.22.4

Post by slogic » 16 Dec 2010, 22:34

Umrug, you're right, there is a bug in threatmap calculation. Units with tag SUB are ignored for surface threatmap. And commander for example has LAND|SUB tags. I added this long ago and did not pay attention during tests. Fixed in master.
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slogic
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Re: Skirmish AI: E323AI 3.22.4

Post by slogic » 23 Dec 2010, 18:07

- Energy stall prevention and perfect economy were once one of the strong features, now its not working properly - it still can pause the lab but is not eager to start energy buildings, and does not pause other production when e-stalling.
If you noticed AI manage to build more peripheral buildings like jammers, defenses, etc. They can't be paused because unfinished building health is decaying until its totally vanished. I would like to make it cleverer but original design is not goal oriented really. AI just always builds tons of units & does not depend on enemy quantity. So, resources are always insufficient. If i set it too paranoid for resources then you'll never see that peripheral buildings cause the place around factories will be occupied. AI still does not have its own real build manager map which can reserve space for future buildings.

Also that is why it builds cheap buildings mostly.

That is why i can't predict when it will build 2nd etc. factory.

In short: not an easy way to fix.

Real goal oriented AI with cost agents & solvers (as written in AI books) is smth i expect for 4.x.x branch. It is not a promise, just a random thought.
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slogic
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Re: Skirmish AI: E323AI 3.22.4

Post by slogic » 26 Dec 2010, 22:00

This one must be much better than 3.24.0.

What's new in 3.25.0:
  • improved naval gameplay
  • implemented support of categorization patch-files
  • improved unit auto-categorizer
  • fixed bugs with getting threat values & calculation threat maps
  • fixed attack stall when non-primary target was destroyed
PS. Forgot to say about patch-files. The idea is: there is a base categorization file & patch-file. The base cat. file is purely auto-generated by AI. You can even remove it and new one will be the same (until the mod/game version is changed of course). Patch file contains only rules to add or remove category tags. In perfect situation these categories are: TECH[1..5], ASSAULT, SNIPER, ARTILLERY, SCOUT. But there is nothing perfect in this world, so you may need to add or remove more tags. Almost 100% reliable method of detecting anti-air units will be released for future Spring release due to required AI interface changes.

For an example patch-file take a look at "BA-categorization-patch.cfg" file.

Old single only cat. files support is still left and is NOT broken.

PPS. This version of AI is bundled into Spring 0.82.7 installer.
Attachments
e323ai-3.25.0-win32-release.zip
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Last edited by slogic on 09 Jan 2011, 17:33, edited 1 time in total.
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bartvbl
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Re: Skirmish AI: E323AI 3.22.4

Post by bartvbl » 09 Jan 2011, 16:56

E323AI 3.25.0:
For some reason the AI manages to build dragon's claws underwater. I am not sure if this is related to the AI, as RAI manages to do the exact same thing, but I thought I'd just let you know :)
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slogic
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Re: Skirmish AI: E323AI 3.22.4

Post by slogic » 11 Jan 2011, 16:28

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djmad
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Re: Skirmish AI: E323AI 3.22.4

Post by djmad » 12 Jan 2011, 11:13

hi Slogic

may you can help to find the ai-bug in multithread spring

if e323ai┬┤s are destroyed you have a 50/50 joker to a crash

i already did a bug-report

http://springrts.com/mantis/view.php?id=2278

greets and hopefully i can play soon again agains 8 E323ai┬┤s ;-)
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jseah
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Re: Skirmish AI: E323AI 3.22.4

Post by jseah » 30 Jan 2011, 15:50

Here, have a replay.

This is my second game vs the new 3.25 AI. Lost my first >.<, had to relearn spring for a bit.

Notes:
AI can't deal with underwater units. Built sonars to get visuals on hovers! Underwater construction vehicles ignore my undefended mexes.
Needs to build stuff that launch torps. Torpedo bombers would have made my life hell.

Can't deal with bombardment. Both commanders were killed by long range bombardment from ships firing at factories. I didn't even know their comms were there when they blew up. =/
Commanders and high priority units should move away from threat sources.
Attachments
20110130_114053_BarracudaBay_0.82.7.sdf
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slogic
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Re: Skirmish AI: E323AI 3.22.4

Post by slogic » 31 Jan 2011, 17:02

I'll check why AI did not reclaim enemy underwater mexes.

And sonars were built by you. Don't know what you're talking about.

Anyway the map is hard for AI and evidently it is triggered as hover map, not sea.
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jseah
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Re: Skirmish AI: E323AI 3.22.4

Post by jseah » 31 Jan 2011, 22:53

Yes, the sonars were built by me.

When I realized the AI wasn't going to have any sonar at all (and thus can't see my sonar stations), I used my comm to build forward sonar stations because they give LOS in fog of war.

At one point doing this gave me LOS to their hover fleet and allowed my battleship to shell them with enough accuracy to kill them without taking damage.


I'll try with another map. Perhaps one that is a water map.
How do I tell if the AI thinks it's a hover map or water map?

------------------------------------------
Addition:
Notable problem in this one.
AI comm walks towards the water to build a tidal generator.

Can I suggest that the AI does not do that if the walk is too long AND if the unit doing the construction is the commander?
I understand that tidals are better than solars if you have E, but it's not worth a long walk at the start of the game.

Building of a radar jammer was quite sweet though. ^^ For the entire game, I thought I was shelling the outer fringe of the AI base.
Which I was, only I thought the center was on the other side!
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20110131_212031_Supreme Lake v2_0.82.7.sdf
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jseah
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Re: Skirmish AI: E323AI 3.22.4

Post by jseah » 31 Jan 2011, 23:38

Played shore to shore. AI did nothing, but the logs from verbose settings told me that it kept finding the build positions blocked.

Strange that.
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BA-Shore2Shore_Remake-v01-201101312223-team-0.log
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oksnoop2
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Re: Skirmish AI: E323AI 3.22.4

Post by oksnoop2 » 01 Mar 2011, 05:04

The current version of this AI seems to not grasp a factory starting unit. I will gladly supply you with any information i can to remedy this.
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Zydox
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Re: Skirmish AI: E323AI 3.22.4

Post by Zydox » 14 Apr 2011, 11:35

No new version on it's way?

I like playing against this AI, but it's still a bit to easy to porc it to death...
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jseah
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Re: Skirmish AI: E323AI 3.22.4

Post by jseah » 14 Apr 2011, 20:33

Zydox wrote:No new version on it's way?

I like playing against this AI, but it's still a bit to easy to porc it to death...
If you mix E323AI with KAI and count them as 1 player, it plays semi-decently in BA.
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Zydox
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Re: Skirmish AI: E323AI 3.22.4

Post by Zydox » 15 Apr 2011, 18:46

jseah wrote:
Zydox wrote:No new version on it's way?

I like playing against this AI, but it's still a bit to easy to porc it to death...
If you mix E323AI with KAI and count them as 1 player, it plays semi-decently in BA.
What kind of mix do you suggest?
Now I've been playing me against a team of six E323 3.25.0...
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jseah
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Re: Skirmish AI: E323AI 3.22.4

Post by jseah » 16 Apr 2011, 00:00

4 E323s and 2 KAIs?

The thing is that KAIs have a tendency to operate huge swarms of units and refuse to attack defences that are too much for their units.

E323AI continually probes defences and skirmishes, forcing those defences to be constructed.


The way to defeat them lies in simply abusing air power as KAI doesn't build AA or air and E323AI does not blob air units properly and builds only sparse AA.
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