Spring:1944 dev and testing - Page 19

Spring:1944 dev and testing

Discuss game development here, from a distinct game project to an accessible third-party mutator, down to the interaction and design of individual units if you like.

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SpikedHelmet
MC: Legacy & Spring 1944 Developer
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Post by SpikedHelmet »

Unfortunately we can't just invent crazy camo schemes that didn't exist. For all intents and purposes the three Allies (USSR, USA, UK) used very similar greens.
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Erom
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Post by Erom »

Besides, this is a lend-lease unit, so it should be about the same for the three sides, right?

I wouldn't worry about identifying whether it's an american or soviet truck if it all comes out in the wash. I'd be more worries about teamcolor being clearly visible.
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SpikedHelmet
MC: Legacy & Spring 1944 Developer
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Post by SpikedHelmet »

I don't intend on changing it. IMO they're more than easy to identify seperately. One's got a giant white star; one's got a dark brown roof; the other has almost no distinguishing marks except for circular teamcolour spots on the sides and back.
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Warlord Zsinj
Imperial Winter Developer
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Post by Warlord Zsinj »

How do I tell my british truck from my enemy's british truck (in a UKvsUK skirmish) from the top-down view, then?

I think it's important that you design these units for usage during gameplay, not for the sexy perspective shots you take using the FPS cam.
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SpikedHelmet
MC: Legacy & Spring 1944 Developer
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Post by SpikedHelmet »

Well, can you tell the difference between these two?

Image
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Warlord Zsinj
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Post by Warlord Zsinj »

Only when I look at it closely; and that's a still image with the unit conveniently turned the right direction in order to flash it's teamcolour. It's also reasonably closely zoomed in.

Again, it's your call, just want to make sure you've got it covered.
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Erom
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Post by Erom »

I think he meant the healthbar.
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Guessmyname
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Post by Guessmyname »

Those big white stars must have made brilliant targets...
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Warlord Zsinj
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Post by Warlord Zsinj »

Bleh, it's bad game design to expect people to tell their units apart based on healthbars or not, IMO.
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FLOZi
MC: Legacy & Spring 1944 Developer
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Post by FLOZi »

Warlord Zsinj wrote:Bleh, it's bad game design to expect people to tell their units apart based on healthbars or not, IMO.
Good job you're not making those kind of decisions for us then, isn't it.
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SpikedHelmet
MC: Legacy & Spring 1944 Developer
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Post by SpikedHelmet »

I don't know about you personally Zsinj, but most people aren't completely overcome with dumbfounded confusion to the point that they cease all game playing activity if they try to select a unit and are confronted with the fact that they can not. Maybe you'd sit there, incessently trying to select it for several minutes while your base is destroyed by a sneak attack that could have been thwarted had you not been so detrimentally distracted by this mind-numbing enigma, but I don't think everyone else has such a limited (or acute) attention span. ;)
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Warlord Zsinj
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Post by Warlord Zsinj »

Look, whatever. I was just offering my opinion and repeatedly stated "it's your call". There's no need to get touchy or defensive, either of you.

I still think teamcolour is important in a game for immediate recognition by players, so that I can look at a screen and instantly know what belongs to what, irrespective of what I have selected or not, or whether I have healthbars on or not. I think the game view is essential as a HUD; it's sexiness is only second. The point is that, yeah, I can work out what belongs to who, but you have the potential to make things a lot easier and more recogniseable for me.

And, there was no intention to imply that you were bad modders, because quite evidently you're not, having one of the most (deservedly) anticipated mods for Spring.
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SpikedHelmet
MC: Legacy & Spring 1944 Developer
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Post by SpikedHelmet »

No, you are not just offering your opinion and stating that it's our call. You're offering your opinion, stating it's our call, and when we disagree with you, effectively tell us that we're designing a bad game. What kind of response did you expect?

AEC Armoured Car Mk III:

Image
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SecurE
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Joined: 29 Apr 2005, 23:49

Post by SecurE »

Of course, seeing the health bars doesn't help you a lot in an situation where you throw in allies and multiple enemy teams. The reluctance to introduce additional team colouring is understandable from a realism perspective, but I do agree with WZ in that it could lead to confusion in the unrealistic scenarios that can happen in a Spring game.

Nice skins otherwise, are you going to randomize the writing on the side however? It really is something that wold probably be unique to each tank.
Same with the numbering on the side of the AEC. I don't know how easy it is to do and keep the shading correct though without wasting texture space.
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1v0ry_k1ng
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Post by 1v0ry_k1ng »

gameplay>historical accuracy

your going to need more team indication than small strips for it to be playable in anything but icons view..
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Zpock
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Post by Zpock »

Put each letter/number in the UV, make lots of single polygon containing these numbers. Use the alpha to make only the letter show, or maybe better, make the parts of the hull you fill in with these go away. Then make an more or less amazing cob code with show/hide, and moving around the ractangles/triangles with letters on, so you can write different stuff and numbers....

hmm i wonder can it be done in a good way?
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rattle
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Post by rattle »

I'm with WS about the team colors, although I can understand that team color ruins the texture and I think it could ruin a lot of the feeling.
Nanoblobs' team color sphere isn't the greatest thing either but it was a start. Now what's needed is some sort of indicator that a unit belongs to you and to what team. Sounds like a good feature request to me.
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FLOZi
MC: Legacy & Spring 1944 Developer
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Post by FLOZi »

People managed in AATA with ZERO teamcolour (ok, bar engineer helmets), they can make do with minimal teamcolour here. :|
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1v0ry_k1ng
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Post by 1v0ry_k1ng »

if theres no team colour, units will blend in with the terrain at any decent zoom, you will be unable to pick apart your own, your enemies and your allies units and will be forced to play from icons, which i find is easier with the alpha of the mod than without. if you want this game to be playable in a non- ASCII icons war, make the units discernable from eachother.
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Warlord Zsinj
Imperial Winter Developer
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Post by Warlord Zsinj »

effectively tell us that we're designing a bad game.
Woah, woah. Firstly, I said it was 'bad game design' to expect people to rely on healthbars to discern units. I stand by this. This doesn't by implication make 1944 "a bad game". I've been drooling at the screenies with everyone else, and I've given my time and effort balance testing it with Nemo, and I can assure you, it isn't a bad game. Do not take that from what I said, as it was not implied.

I also said earlier (in both threads) that I can understand the exact reasons why you don't want to put teamcolour on, and that you face a difficult choice as a modder. Therefore, given that the answer isn't a simple yes/no, it can hardly be said that one choice makes 1944 a "bad game", simply because the area is so grey and there are advantages and disadvantages of both options. It was my opinion that you should go with one, and my belief that expecting players to rely on healthbars alone for teamcolour is not good for gameplay. I'll note that this was said in response to erom, and my initial recognition of that image showed that I quite clearly saw that there was teamcolour on the trucks, I just thuoght it wasn't enough.
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