XTA Development discussion - Page 17

XTA Development discussion

Discuss game development here, from a distinct game project to an accessible third-party mutator, down to the interaction and design of individual units if you like.

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Better then v7?

Poll ended at 08 Nov 2006, 03:04

Yes
23
82%
No
5
18%
 
Total votes: 28

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rattle
Damned Developer
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Post by rattle »

I believe that the old land storage was corestore, while the underwater one was coruwestor, with no e... the should be made more consistant
CorEStore
CorUWEStore

Energy store, isn't it?
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Error323
AI Developer
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Joined: 28 Nov 2006, 16:46

Post by Error323 »

1v0ry_k1ng wrote:course its intentional, you cant make somthing exlplode with a nuclear blast by accident dude, its all in seperate files. what he is saying is its just the animation, the balance is the same.

edit: the can laser effect and sound still need changing its currently as a beef as the_barbie_mobile

edit2: why does the fido cost 590M at [deleted hyperlink] and 400 in the newest xta? when did that change happen?
also, it has 64 dps againt the gunslingers 180 odd, low health, average speed, only 160 range more than the gunslinger. even 2v1 it loses against a single gunslinger. somthing needs changing to make it a valid unit, 64dps = lol
Been following this discussion silently for some time. And I was wondering, How did you calculate the dps? On the Fido, the reloadtime is 2.6 (I assume that is in seconds) and the damage is 120. So my guess it would be 120 / 2.6 = 46 dps (rounded). And the Maverick dps would be 208 dps (rounded).
[KnoX]ElementalGizmo
XTA Developer
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Post by [KnoX]ElementalGizmo »

I'd just like to say a heart felt thanks for all the peeps out there for their support, for Chojin being a man; admitting his mistakes and wonderfully fixing them in time for the devs release.

Before we continue the plans for the next release and we hope/plan to have in it; i would like to straighten up some facts/views and lay down the truth for all to see. And there for make there own individual, educated decisions on the progress and bad propaganda of this fine mod.





The pressure from some peoples' tainted tongues has been horrible and a painful (be it wrong) read.

FOE:
you're making XTA your clan mod, making changes and not putting them in the change log, breaking compatibility with the ai's - it's a disaster.

It's not XTA anymore, it's the KNOX clan's mod. It shouldn't be released with Spring in its current state.
The work that has gone into this mod is HIGHLY un-appreciated. This "knox_mod" theory is a load of tripe that could not possibly be more far away from the truth. Have you critics read the credits lately?

aGorm ____Replaced the KNOXIAN load screens for the BETTER of the mod.

Noruas my right hand man, FX producer and main debater for balances. IS NOT A KNOXIAN.

IvoryKing's input towards balances heavily influenced the final balanced changes___also NOT A KNOXIAN.

Chojin___creator of the fantastic (be it floored first time, not of his fault due to wrong wiki) less mess version, with changed FBI's. NOT A KNOXIAN!

Foe you told me you are 27y of age, why act so childish and come up with a completely hurtful, spiteful + wrong fictitious tail of lies ?

FOE:
It's time to fork the mod or elect new mod maintainers.

Current dev's are not getting it right, and are not being careful and paying attention to detail. You can overlook a few missteps, but not a habit of doing dumb things to the mod.
Creating a new fbi system, and heavily editing the structure of XTA was a MAJOR undertaking by Chojin. Such a large scale development was completed correctly according to the wiki. Thus the bugs (which was corrected in time for spring update, and was not his fault)

I grow tired of this feud within the ranks. XTA V8.1 in my opinion is the best ever version of XTA up to date. Throughout its development there have been a distinct link between player and modding. How else could so many NON KNOXIANS get into the credits? How else could have my ideas be REPLACED and updated FOR THE BETTER along the versions we have released.

XTA has always prided itself on its own brand of old guard, 1337 vets, with their own sense of honour and pride in strategy. Since this feud i feel a great loss in the community. This saddens me greatly! I wish to leave a few facts for all to read.

1) There is no "KNOX_MOD"
2) The armour.txt was corrected as fast as humanly possible. Faults were not of Chojins fault, but down to incorrect wiki.
PauloMorfeo: Sun Nov 26, 2006 6:39 pm

Chojin wrote:
Foe, maybe you should update your knowledge of weapons.tdf and armor.txt, before you scream like that, here:
http://taspring.clan-sy.com/wiki/Mod_Development:Armor

So, what did that :%g /ARMBRAWL/d on weapons.tdf exactly do to the balance of XTA? right, nothing...

You are wrong.
And that wiki info is slightly wrong. That wiki info explains what it should work like (at least in my opinion. Some others disagree), not how Spring works.


3) The dev team of this mod are made up from people from this once fine, united community.
4) Every step available has been taken to aid the 3rd party NTai project, bar crippling our speed.
5) I EXPECT any such "theories" to be COMPLETELY backed up, with reference + fact + constructive criticism before anyone in there right mind would take them seriously.
[KnoX]ElementalGizmo
XTA Developer
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Post by [KnoX]ElementalGizmo »

Lindir The Green
Then how about some sort of compromise, where we keep the old unitnames that are really easy to understand, but change the ones that aren't.
That's more of a reasonable request dude. Im happy to see this easing of the hate now. I really honestly hope that this feud will be drooped soon.

But on my part i am dyslexic, learning these cave dog names was a real pain for me. Neither do i have excel, neither does Noruas my right hand man. When we said the changes were for the speed of the modders, we really meant it. The way they are currantly real does speed things thing up, for research/comparison/edit ect....and also helps noobs easaly (faster) experiment and develop there teckneaks

And im sure if Yeha changed the names of certain code or whatever im sure he would be kind enough to go out of his way to help the other devs by creating a conversion tool, just as Chojin has done.

As for the nukes, the geo has used the nuke explosion since v7 (previous im not sure of atm)

This is the info from the fbi's on the Geo

XTA v8.1
//************************************************************
// Weapons
//***********
explodeas=LARGE_BUILDINGEX;
selfdestructas=NUCLEAR_MISSILE;


THIS HAS NOT BEEN CHANGED in version 8 or 8.1!

The only thing that HAS been changed is the area of effect of the nukes. Which in this instant is LINKED with the self-d of the GEO's.

@FOE
Also, geothermals and mobile fusions now self destruct with the new, huge nuclear blast. I think it's worse if these mistakes were unintentional - it shows that the current maintainers just don't have the knowledge and experience to be maintaining the mod that is released with spring.
Excuse me! ermz have you seen the changes in game play since v7. Did N0ize resign after peeps spammed spiders, spammed crashers, spammed brawlers. Throughout the development of this MANY slight changes have been made. Mortys now are used effective, the silly floaty freeze of vtol from spiders FIXED, the 360 self damaging spin of crashers FIXED, fast-w noobs smash FIXED, ddm/annih auto fire FIXED, new radar system introduced, decoy coms size fixed, ravens blowing up themselves FIXED, defensive teeth balance FIXED, jeeeeeeeeeeeesus i haven't even finished yet about ALL the fixes and BALLANCES we have done.

Quite frankly, how dare you! Noruas for instance has been modding for EIGHT YEARS! I expected far more common sense from you
FOE. Has this remark spawned it-self only because i didnt use more of your icons? 'IF' it is, shame on you sir. After all of the benefits of this team, you point your finger at the first mistake you find.

Im sure you will quote me so im doing this all in capitals just for you FOE

I "ASSUMED" THAT THE NON NUCLEAR BUILDINGS WOULD USE THIS TAG "selfdestructas=LARGE_BUILDING;" HAVING NOT DESIGNED THIS MOD FROM FOUNDATION TO V7, NOR READING EVERY SINGLE TAG ON ALL 273 FBI'S (APPORX 40 FOR EACH FBI,!!! 10,920 !!!LINES OF DATA) I ADMIT I MISSED !!!4!!!

Now considering, this is free, made in our own time, time we take from RL to dedicate to the project, the testing/debates and develop/experimentation of new tags ect.. 4 lines out of all we have done is good going. Such is the benefit to the player, who has all of this dedication spend on them FOR FREE.

I have noticed the difference in play, but need i remind you that the geo, cor lite fusion plant, cloackable futons are stationary non offensive units. If a player decides to self-d such expensive buildings it is either out of desperation or spite (which will lead to the complete destruction of his/hers own base in the process). The effects of the mobile fusion are less than desirable i agree, i experienced the loss of many pyros due to BIGBOSS driving through my assault lines. This is an over looked issue, that pages like this exist for feedback and identification of such BUGS. For bringing this to our attention, i thank-you; for your attitude and spiteful remarks i do not.

I simply hope this arguing will drop dead, and we all can just start loving this game we all love so very much :-) This arguing is not fun, spring is about fun! And this isnt it, lets all just move on PLEASE :!:
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1v0ry_k1ng
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Post by 1v0ry_k1ng »

yeah, you know, im totally stumped, as I was on tyhat webpage at 11am, and i wrote down the values ON PAPER. and now I look back and the values are correct again. Im not totally sure what I did there.. either they were sneakily changed or I became temporarily illiterate.
ok, so correcting my earlier blunder:
Fido Mcost: 398
Build Time: 10827
health: 1310
max speed: 1.75
dps: 46
reload time: 2.6
weapon velocity: 480
range: 770

VS

Gunslinger Mcost: 590
Build Time: 8193
max health: 1200
Max Velocity: 1.4
dps: 208
reload time: 0.8
weapon velocity: 900
range: 600

Take a second to let the contrast sink in there.
the Gunslinger costs 1.5x more than a fido.
for 1.5 times the cost, 200 metal, you are looking at
+ 2000 less builtime!
+110 less health
+ 4x the dps!
+2x the weapon velcoity!?
+ 0.1 lower max speed.

in short, the fido is the most underbalanced unit of all time. the only advantage it has, a 170 range superiority generaly is little use in game, and its dismal dps results it in being, for example, never used.
the maverick is virtually the same speed, with 4x the dps and 2x the projectile speed (increaces accuracy). ah. 4x.dps.2x.weapon speed.
the gunslinger and fido both fulfill the same role: long range skirmishing fire: crippling things at long range while staying out of harms way, ideally behind other units. the same role yes, but the gunslinger is so much better at it. the 170 range boost dosnt mean much in game terms as
1) it cannot see that far so half the time time it will be fighting at short range
2) its projectiles are slower.
fun fact: one gunslinger can own 2x fido. it would also be 0.5 fidos cheaper, have 2x the dps, build in less than half the time.
so the gist: the fido has no role atm as its role is already fulfilled by the gunslinger, which I hasten to add is perfectly balanced in the game atm.
so the fido:
because it is currently pretty useless I have a list of thoughts on what to do with it (note, i mean one of these not ALL OF THEM AT ONCE):
+make it a cheaper, weaker, more mass produceable gunslinger (increase its dps to about 80 and increase its weapon velcoity)
+make it speedy (atm its average speed) and make it a fast long range raider
+make it tough (large hp boost, it IS an "assault kbot) and shorter ranged
+increase its range to about 900 to be on par with the morty to make it a proper skirmishing kbot
+give its projectiles about the same impulse as the AA riot tank so it can stop advancing units and push them back a few cm. I like this idea the best as it suits the fido image. a line of them at the front of a defence line slowing an advance.

I made a few examples of balanced Fidos below:

1) The impulse variant
Fido Mcost: 398
Build Time: 10827
health: 1310
max speed: 1.75
dps: 46
reload time: 2.6
weapon velocity: 480
range: 770
Impulse: current--->lots

2)The skirmishing variant
Fido Mcost: 398
Build Time: 10827-----> 7500
health: 1310
max speed: 1.75------->2.125
dps: 46
reload time: 2.6
weapon velocity: 480--->700
range: 770-->900

3) The "balanced cost" variant
Fido Mcost: 398-->320ish
Build Time: 10827-->6500
health: 1310
max speed: 1.75
dps: 46
reload time: 2.6
weapon velocity: 480
range: 770


4) "The Rock" variant
Fido Mcost: 398
Build Time: 10827
health: 1310-------->2100
max speed: 1.75
dps: 46
reload time: 2.6
weapon velocity: 480
range: 770

just some ideas. sorry for the long post and earlier misunderstanding.

edit:
5) the "make it worth its cost cuz atm it bites" variant
Fido Mcost: 398
Build Time: 10827----->7000
health: 1310
max speed: 1.75----->2
dps: 46------------>55
reload time: 2.6
weapon velocity: 480------>1100
range: 770------>700
Last edited by 1v0ry_k1ng on 28 Nov 2006, 19:08, edited 1 time in total.
[KnoX]ElementalGizmo
XTA Developer
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Post by [KnoX]ElementalGizmo »

For the next vertion:

I expect to test the nuke for fps on low end pc's and 90% sure it will be incorperated. The D-Gun very well may be decreased in its staying time.

The new cor silencer will be used. Hopfully the new corcom moddel will be used. And yes the Fido BITES lol.

No one and i mean NO ONE uses them. I will ask noruas to do the next vertion, as i have pitty little spare time atm. Its ballance will be tricky, it "could" be spammed as a lvl2 crasher from v7 if it is wrong.

And of cource the Geo + light futions + cloackable fution's will be given there own self-destruction tag to simulate there old ones from V7.

I expect that everyone will like these changes, and that we can all start loving XTA again.

@ aGorm:
If the new Nuke FX is to be used or an eayer frame rate vertion, would you be as so kind to make us a load screen explaining the need of anti nukes.
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Peet
Malcontent
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Post by Peet »

I tried teh nuke in nanoblobs...causes a lagfest for me. ( HAAAAAAATE integrated )

I'll just rip em out for myself or something, it runs fine on anything with a real gpu (even a 440 MX ^_^)
[KnoX]ElementalGizmo
XTA Developer
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Post by [KnoX]ElementalGizmo »

Told ya dude, you get an agp port n ill post u that spair g-card i got. However i font have cards for all underperforming pc's. lmao. It was barto's old card annyways.

Putting in this new FX will be a HARD choice. We will gain dribble fest junkies, but also dissmay low end performance pc's players (rattle 4example) which is a bad thing.

Do we risk loosing players by entising new ones?? ZOMG! :?
Chojin
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Post by Chojin »

1v0ry_k1ng wrote:yeah, you know, im totally stumped, as I was on tyhat webpage at 11am, and i wrote down the values ON PAPER. and now I look back and the values are correct again. Im not totally sure what I did there.. either they were sneakily changed or I became temporarily illiterate.

Code: Select all

root@falkenstein:/var/www/xta_v8.1> date
Tue Nov 28 18:38:31 CET 2006
root@falkenstein:/var/www/xta_v8.1> ll units_arm_fido.html 
-rw-r--r--  1 www-data www-data 6.1K Nov 23 14:26 units_arm_fido.html
root@falkenstein:/var/www/xta_v8.1> ll units_arm_maverick.html 
-rw-r--r--  1 www-data www-data 6.1K Nov 23 14:26 units_arm_maverick.html
:-P ;-)

On first glance, i like the "skimishing variant" best.
just some ideas. sorry for the long post and earlier misunderstanding.
Don't be. The suggestions you make backed up by the values are excellent.
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1v0ry_k1ng
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Post by 1v0ry_k1ng »

okay boys:

1) NUKE EFFECT: IS A NUKE EFFECT. leave the geo, minifusion blasts and anything that isnt a whacking great nuclear bomb back to the old, whimpy V7 explosion. THEY ARE NOT NUKES.

2) the nuke costs a fookin bomb, and is easily countered, and has GAME ENDING POWER OF MY GOD. it needs a MEGA GAMEENDING ANIMATION... namely Argh nukes.

moral: remove the high poly ultra argh nuke animation from EVERYTHING but the nuke and maybe the commander blast. this is a good comprimise and ensures the two rare, very beefy blasts are suitably overdramtic. this also means that wimpy games machies will only stutter the number of lost commanders times in most games.

NEW COR COM MODEL :-)

also, the core can should do 85dps not 84.7 lol, and the flea is currently ULTRA OP. 10 fleas can run through a defensive lines and base taking little or no damage and assinate fusions ultra easy. they should cost AT LEAST 12,000 E...
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FoeOfTheBee
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Post by FoeOfTheBee »

A point-by-point response would be tedious, I'll make this brief:

Recent development of XTA has been full of mistakes. The maintainers if left to themselves would have shipped the .74 version of XTA with the equivalent of a 6x hp boost to air units EVEN AFTER THIS WAS POINTED OUT TO THEM, with the exception of Chojin who did a little research and fixed this, closely averting a total disaster.

Development has been slow - no update for the .73 release, even though .73 broke the mod in important ways.

I don't trust the current maintenance group to avoid future screw-ups, or to do things reasonably fast. I'm not clear on who's really in charge, or on the individual ability of those involved, but the group's aggregate performance has been lacking.

I especially don't trust Gizmo and Myg, who both told me that the LandAir thing had been done on purpose, apparently without knowing what had really been done. The way armor.txt really works has been hashed out extensively on the forums, they should have known.

I'm not saying they're bad people, just bad modders. If you think the improvements outweigh the screw-ups, you may be right, but I want the improvements without this many screw-ups.

Gizmo, if you're honestly satisfied with how mod development has gone, I think you have low standards. I feel no shame for expecting fewer avoidable screw-ups and faster fixes than XTA has recently experienced.
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AF
AI Developer
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Post by AF »

I have a novel solution to the mini fusion debacle.

Give the arm lvl 2 conbots and decoy com the mini fusion vehicle, ala units building units. That way you neednt go lvl 2 vehicles just to get them and they're just as viable as the core mini fusions.

I'd say farks shouldnt be able to build them however as it'd make them having the geothermal compeltely useless.

If the above was done I'd also like to see a rebalance of the arm and core versions so the stationary mini fusion was stronger/armoured and slightly better than the mobile arm mini fusion.

This would even up the energy economy issue between core and arm and at the same time add something new without really changing things.
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1v0ry_k1ng
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Post by 1v0ry_k1ng »

FoeOfTheBee wrote:A point-by-point response would be tedious, I'll make this brief:

Recent development of XTA has been full of mistakes. The maintainers if left to themselves would have shipped the .74 version of XTA with the equivalent of a 6x hp boost to air units EVEN AFTER THIS WAS POINTED OUT TO THEM, with the exception of Chojin who did a little research and fixed this, closely averting a total disaster.

Development has been slow - no update for the .73 release, even though .73 broke the mod in important ways.

I don't trust the current maintenance group to avoid future screw-ups, or to do things reasonably fast. I'm not clear on who's really in charge, or on the individual ability of those involved, but the group's aggregate performance has been lacking.

I especially don't trust Gizmo and Myg, who both told me that the LandAir thing had been done on purpose, apparently without knowing what had really been done. The way armor.txt really works has been hashed out extensively on the forums, they should have known.

I'm not saying they're bad people, just bad modders. If you think the improvements outweigh the screw-ups, you may be right, but I want the improvements without this many screw-ups.

Gizmo, if you're honestly satisfied with how mod development has gone, I think you have low standards. I feel no shame for expecting fewer avoidable screw-ups and faster fixes than XTA has recently experienced.
learning the ropes of modding takes time. every mistake thats found is fixed in time. in a few months the last flaws will be ironed out and its pretty much finished. they make mistakes but the mistakes are spotted and corrected so its all fine. AS LONG AS IT GETS DONE ITS FINE. even if everything is now not to your liking, fact is I dont see it changing now so just be supportive and helpful. find and list faults. keep it constructive.
Im satisfied. the gameplay and graphics have imrpoved much since v7. isnt that the point? what needs changing still?
[KnoX]ElementalGizmo
XTA Developer
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Post by [KnoX]ElementalGizmo »

As i have tryed to clarify, Chojin was under the assumtion that the wiki was correct. Not everybody listens to what some people say in the forums !

The wiki was not fully correct. Napkin was under the imprestion that the brawler armour tags were not correctly working in v7 there for neither in v8 or the v8.1 we were working on. In his LESS MESS vertion where he took out what he believed to be not needed in from the information from the wiki he originally took out the brawlers tag. I said i had no probs with this as he ensured me it was not working, thus my pm reply to you earlyer last week. "yep"

Within 24h or me talking to Noruas, and myself talking to Chojin, Chojin had rectified the problem, informed the devs, and updated the posts.

He was miss-led by information from a well know and TRUSTED WIKI. Who can blaim him for that? NO ONE!

Its a good job the vertion 8.1 was released ahead of scedual for us to find the bug. I would like to thank NEM clan for talking to us about that.

Currantly we have over 80% approval rating in this forum, and i see a MASSIVE increase in the XTA games being played, some players eaven from AA. XTA is now growing thanks to our efforts, and you should appretiate the benefits of this.

There has been a hickup, and it was corrected very quickly once the problem was identifyed. The dedication of the team is not up for question! And our work is outstanding; i am extreamly proud of what we have accomplished. And aGorms pics which replaced my ones, may i add!

Being a moder i have certain dedication eaven to you FOE. The speed of whitch the updates have been progressed has been good depending we have REAL LIVES to go to at the end of the day. And we all like to play XTA as well as spend h apon h modding it. Did i mention we also have jobs and some have schooling as well? Well we do, and such things obviously take time.

If you wish to make a proper argument on your hate for me, or the team in a hole do so. But by all means do so with knowledge ow what you are talking about. Saying you cant point them all out doesnt help. You like XTA enough to conplain so much, but yet cant be bothered to go into "tedious" explanaition. This forum is for constuctive crytisum, not slander or hate mail. If you "want the improvements without this many screw-ups." try giving us DETAILES on what u find and quit bugging us.

Please try to have more constraint, and co-operate with us. Slander and sutch only slows us down as i find myself explaining every lil thing i do 3 times to you. I hope you realise that you are having a negative effect on this community, and will stop immediatly. Just chill out, if you need answeres ask, we have NO SECRETS from annybody. We never had, all we want is a good solid game play for us all to enjoy and relax with at the end of a hard day at work.

So now i answered ever thing u have said (obviously not the ones u will ask me) will u plz settle down, and communicate on a more freindly basis?

And will you please retract what you said about "KnoX_MOD" I still have no clue as to where you base this idea from, or why you said it in sutch a distaistful mannor. :?:
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diggz2k
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Post by diggz2k »

maybe we need a community vote, an election, to see who should lead the development of xta. Idividuals who want to lead say so and we make a poll winner gets xta control of the official xta development. Anybody want to run?
Sheekel
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Post by Sheekel »

I disagree, i think having multiple developers allows for variations in input and ideas.
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1v0ry_k1ng
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Post by 1v0ry_k1ng »

whats wrong with the current version!? whats wrong with the current devs?
Sheekel
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Post by Sheekel »

Nothing that I can see. I really like this version. Good job Devs.

I still think the dgun glow should be sped up a bit, but thats personal preference. Can I change that value without ruining sync ingame?

Ivory King, you sound a bit frustrated :wink:
[KnoX]ElementalGizmo
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Post by [KnoX]ElementalGizmo »

Ow thanks Sheekel 8)

And yes been quite a few requests conserning the d gun fx, i will be shortened a bit.

Nice to see a few new faces in the forum :-) Also i lost to colorblind just a min ago, however he said he likes the com icons now so i am still in a very good mood YAY.

AND WOW!

SO manny more XTA games poping up all of a sudden, im thrilled, our work is taking off big time :!:

And whenever i log in i get "<[AF]Cookiebot> All Hail [KnoX]ElementalGizmo!!!" so i guess AF is happy now ;-) (seeming his remark for N0ize the other day lmao)

Everything is falling into place now, the more games, the friendly attitude. I feel XTA is comming arround for a huge fresh start. This might have something to do with the AA problems atm (the `ballanced` mod seperating the AA community), this can only mean good things for us. Its about time AA had some compotition, lets just hope its XTA thats it!

Possative fealings all round? I know i have them :wink:
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1v0ry_k1ng
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Post by 1v0ry_k1ng »

Sheekel wrote:Nothing that I can see. I really like this version. Good job Devs.

I still think the dgun glow should be sped up a bit, but thats personal preference. Can I change that value without ruining sync ingame?

Ivory King, you sound a bit frustrated :wink:
I went to the trouble of explaining my frustration with what I like to call the Wheel of XTA:
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