EyeinTheSky

[PicassoCT]

A game idea, a rts-game idea to be precise.
Talked through and chewed upon with Keks (Stephan M.) - (one of these days, the Noodles-Shadder-Vientam Shooter is going to be realized)



The usual assumption about a battlefield in a RTS is that it is visible.
At least when your units look at it, you see what they see. In this game, this is the expensive, exotic other



In EyeInTheSkye this is very different. You see the map, and you see your units, as long as they can report to you.
You don't see the enemy they encounter, unless:
-The Unit has time to report its contact- a activity for which the unit has to be not in a direct battle engagement and have eye-contact with the enemy.
-The Unit has a sensory Package- which makes it expensive. Very expensive.
-Your Satellite is going over that section of the battlefield. A Satellite always follows a linear path, and all you can change about that is the angle and point of entry on the battlefield, for the next run.
- Satellite can be gunned down- and are really, really expensive to replace. However, Satellite reaching guns, have a very small area they can target after being deployed.

In return, just because you don't see them, doesn't mean, your units have ceased to exist. Disrupted communications, don't mean they cant still carry out there last received orders.

Which brings us to the next different Point:
Communications:
Communications by default works
However- it can be disrupted in several ways:
-Transmission disruption
-Sending disruption
-Receiving disruption

And allows for a vector of attack never seen in games before:

-Transmission hacking
-Sending hacking
-Receiving hacking

This amounts to the ability to send faked commands to enemy units, which equivalents to a takeover until communication restoration.

Units are conventional today asymmetric war forces.

The really interesting aspect in this game comes for once from the realism.. the fact you only partially know what is going on. Which allows for ruses and require well thought through timing with reconnaissance. And with that comes a requirement to think ahead. To give your units long term order chains- or missions, as they might be out of contact until they return.

[hokomoko]

I had some similar ideas for a S44 mode where you're a company/battalion commander and you order your platoons around into the fow, getting periodic updates from them.
You can also move around, to micro manage a certain part of the battlefield.

I'm not sure if it will be fun, but it can be interesting.

[PicassoCT]

Neither m i. It certainly has a higher "Poker"-Alea ring to it.

The problem is that it could be boring to have no influence on the outcome of the battles- lack of agency is never good.
So maybee handing controll of these battles to other players (sub-commanders) would make them more interesting.

[Google_Frog]

I have always wanted to try something similar to this but do not know how to make it fun or usable.

The UI would have to be amazing to convey the state of all your partial information. There is so much more to show than the ghost structures from many RTS games. Where the enemy seemed to be heading is information as important as when and where the enemy was sighted. Your own units could report the path they took since they sent their last update. You would have to know where you think your units are and the orders you think they have as well as be able to give these 'ghost units' meaningful orders.

My take on the idea was that you would have transmission towers as well as communications units which can carry order packets. Your commander is stationed on the ground and has direct sight and control over anything in range of the transmission tower network which it is in range of (if none are nearby it acts as a small mobile node). This lets you control a base. It would be infeasible to blanket the map in transmission towers so there would in effect be many independent networks with messages relayed between them by some sort of communications unit. Squads would sort of be a network and communication units would seek them out to relay new orders.

The units in a game like this would have to be quite simple. It is frustrating to have units die in stupid ways when you have no control over them.

[MetalSucker]

I suppose the easiest way to test the concept would be to add a delay to the execution of move commands, directly proportional to the distance from the main base, it doesn't sound fun though...

[hokomoko]

Maybe you can use drawings like this:



I'm currently using it as a gimmick widget to send pretty arrows, but it's possible to use the code for drawing these arrows dynamically for the player.

[Google_Frog]

I suppose the easiest way to test the concept would be to add a delay to the execution of move commands, directly proportional to the distance from the main base, it doesn't sound fun though...

I don't think that would be effective, or that anything similar would be effective. A game with this concept would have to include it from its first design. You have to start with this concept and build a game around it instead of adding it to an existing game. I say this because current games rely on their current methods of unit control and information display. Changing the basic structure of a players interaction with the game will just result in something frustrating.

[bobthedinosaur]

I was thinking about something similar to this as well. You could also use mobile command or communication units as well to have link ups, and give units cut off from communications an ai and a seperate LOS (not shared by the player) so they stay put and fend for themselves until communication has been reestablished. I guess a game like this would not be very fun tho and too complicated for the average spring player.


A hacking and counter hacking intelligence system that picasso first describes sounds pretty interesting, but it would be difficult to implement and might almost seem like a mini game distracting from the main battlefield.

[PicassoCT]

The question is - are players ready for this realistic general feeling " i dont see anything, and i dont know what is happening, and there is nothing i can do but wait.."

Gamedesigners tend to dread this- but on the other hand, counterstrike had you paused for quite a while - and it worked.

I think it would be good, if the history would fast forward once you gain information on what happend after com-out

[PicassoCT]

Maybe you can use drawings like this:



I'm currently using it as a gimmick widget to send pretty arrows, but it's possible to use the code for drawing these arrows dynamically for the player.

Neatozilla and im japan

[PicassoCT]

And everybody agreed and went about there buisness.. even the brainstrom..

Another idea.
Oasis style map- basically every place on the map ist perma-hostile on a low level, except for a few oasis like places..
Combat must be fast or must not be at all.

Has any map tryied this?
Im aware of the worms in Cattle and Loveplay, but i mean something like a ice- or sandstorm damaging constantly if not in the oasis?

Code: Select all

allUnits={}
allOasis={{x,y,z},{x,y,z}}
damageRate=10
radius=512

function Gadget:UnitCreated(ud)
allUnits[ud]=false
end

function Gadget:UnitDestroyed(ud)
allUnits[ud]=nil
end


function Gadget:GameFrame(frame)
	if f % 42 then
		--Set all units to the outside
			for k,v in pairs(allUnits) do v=true; end
	
		for k,vectors in pairs(allOasis) do
		
			T=Spring.GetUnitsInCylinder(vector.x,vector.z,radius)
				for i=1,#T do
					if allUnits[ud] then
					allUnits[ud]=false
					end
				end
		end
		
		--Add the damage
		for k,v in pairs(allUnits) do 
			if v==true and Spring.ValidUnitID(k)==true then
			Spring.AddUnitDamage(k,damageRate)
			end
		 end
		
	end
end

[Anarchid]

A replay mechanism and quick game turnaround would be mandatory for any game with such level of information hiding i think.

An embodied limited-information commander unit is also an interesting thing to concider wrt "how do we bridge RTS and VR".

Maybe even trans-embodied? A game about downloading your mind into units of your faction, but you can only jump between bodies a given short distance or within transcendence tower range?