Star Wars space mod? - Page 2

Star Wars space mod?

Discuss game development here, from a distinct game project to an accessible third-party mutator, down to the interaction and design of individual units if you like.

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SpikedHelmet
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Post by SpikedHelmet » 26 Dec 2005, 08:00

I will work on cutting the faces down as I see fit.

Gnome, all I was really wanting to go for was a very simple mini-TC, probably containing little more than a Fighter Plant and a Capital Ship Plant, per side. Maybe, maybe I might consider a FF-style "large-scale" mod focusing solely on space warfare in all its forms but that depends on how a little working works out.

What is SWS? Wait, Star Wars Spring I assume. I don't even know what this game is... if it's just Spring version of SWTA then actually I do know about it.

What could simply be done is sticking whatever Commanders I end up having into some SWS advanced factory of some sort. But like TAFF I want to focus solely on space "stuff", I wouldn't want to work it around the inclusion of ground stuff as well.

Then comes the issue of timeline. With the new Star War movies a lot more crap has come out. I think SWS focuses not only on Imperials and Rebels, but the Droid/Seperatists as well, right?

I wouldn't know about this. Continuity would be shot. Imperators and (afaik) Executors werent around during the Clone Wars prior to the Trade Fed's destruction. Neither were TIE Fighters it would seem. Although I wouldn't mind including some hardware shown in Ep. I/II/III in under the Rebels since they'd probably use whatever they could get. In any case I'd focus on conventional Empire vs. Rebels.

Here's a list of Imperial Fighters compiled from the movies and other sources as being used by the Empire:

TIE Fighter - Twin laser cannons - Superiority Fighter
TIE/ln Fighter - Twin laser cannons - Superiority Fighter
TIE/rc/TIE Vanguard - No armament? - Reconnaisance
TIE/gt - Twin laser cannons?, light bombs - Light Bombardment Support Fighter
TIE/fc - No armament? - Sensor/Long Range Recon
TIE Bomber - Twin laser cannons, concussion bombs and/or proton torpedoes - Bomber
TIE Boarding Craft - No Armament - Ship-to-Ship Boarding Assault Craft (taking over enemy ships?)
TIE Interceptor - Six laser cannons - Interceptor
TIE Hunter - Twin laser cannons, twin ion cannons, proton torpedoes - Heavy Fighter
TIE Avenger - Quad laser cannons, proton torpedoes - Advanced Interceptor
TIE Defender - Quad laser cannons, twin ion cannons, proton torpedoes - Advanced Heavy Fighter
TIE Phantom - Twin laser cannons, cloaking generator - Stealth Superiority Fighter

Main Capital Ship classes include:

Victory-Class Star Destroyer
Venator-Class Star Destroyer
Imperator-Class Star Destroyer
Imperator 2-Class Star Destroyer (ISD-2)
Dominator-Class Interdictor Star Destroyer (long range auto-paralyze? This may serve no use as IIRC Interdictors stopped hyperdrive use, not sublight travel. It's not like many ships will be going hyperdrive in the game!)
Executor-Class Star Destroyer
Other frigates, corvettes and other light ships that I'll have to research
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Gnomre
Imperial Winter Developer
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Post by Gnomre » 26 Dec 2005, 09:44

Yeah, SWS is the Spring port of SWTA. We kind of use acronyms interchangeably :P I disagree about the capital ships being part of the ground tech tree--the ground wars and the space battles were completely different.

SWTA is also focused primarily on the original trilogy, with a few prequel things put in because they're neat (the droids most notably, there are some random vehicles too). It wouldn't bother me (or most people probably) if you kept it that way--mostly OT, but with some random prequel stuff if you want because they're cool ;)

Here's the spacecraft we have in SWTA currently from your list:
TIE Fighter
TIE Interceptor
TIE Vanguard
TIE Bomber
TIE Avenger
TIE Defender
TIE Phantom

The others, based on those descriptions at least, seem mostly redundant. Heck, you could pretty much just use the two air plants for each side we have in SWTA currently pretty much verbatim--both are pretty solid in terms of variety and completion.

As for the Capitals, I'd say have your list there, and then have the Executor as the Imperial "Krogoth" type unit--massive, strong, takes a bit to build, etc. Basically have a build tree like this:

Comm unit
-Fighter plant
--TIE/rc (Vanguard)
--TIE/f
--TIE/b
--TIE/i
--Con unit
---Some light defenses? (perhaps ion cannon style things for anti-cap ship, and turbolasers for fighters)
---Adv Fighter Plant
----TIE/a
----TIE/d
----TIE/p
----Scimitar Bomber (from SWTA, a nice advanced bomber)
----One of our advanced gunships
----some con unit (perhaps level 1, and make the factory cheaper--or perhaps level 2, and make the fighters in this plant stronger)
---Capital ship plant
----Your call on a nice array here, I don't know the caps too well
----Adv con unit
-----Adv resources maybe, perhaps better defense or something
-----Adv cap ship plant
------Executor

And then have something similar for the rebels. The rebels would get superior fighter aircraft, while the empire would have better numbers. The empire would have stronger capital ships while the rebels would have weaker ones (comparatively) which don't really produce much faster--the strength of the rebels' against cap ships would be their ability to bomb the shit out of them with the bombers from the previous level.

I think we could nicely simulate hyperspace too, like this:
Fighters go slow. They're fast on their own level, but when you zoom out, you notice that they'd take a *very* long time to cross maps. So, to get them around, you need to load them into a capital ship (different classes could carry different amounts), then hit the 'on' switch on the cap ship--this would use spring's new in-game speed modifier to go into hyperspace mode and quickly cross the map, at the cost of disabling all weapons onboard. You'd then turn them off and start unloading your fighters to wage battle. Of course, we could make smaller maps so not every game has to be played that way.

How's that?
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Warlord Zsinj
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Post by Warlord Zsinj » 26 Dec 2005, 10:34

Heya spike! Really surprised to find you here, wanting to start something Star Wars related...

I also worked on SWTA:WIS for a while. I'd be glad to help you out here and there, if you need it.

My biggest request for any space related Star Wars mod for Spring is:

Scale.

Seeing as you can make massive units, and tiny units, do it. All the fighters should be really, really small; smaller than Star Wars infantry; smaller than the flea. Then all the capital ships should be really, really big.
Obviously you won't be able to get things actual scale, but the difference between fighter and capital ship should really be huge.

Check these out:
http://wormhole.tauniverse.com/images/spring/impsd1.jpg
http://wormhole.tauniverse.com/images/spring/impsd2.jpg

... Obviously you don't need to make your ships that big, but it does show how well Spring can do. Note that at that scale, the Spring has issues with collision detection. You'd either have to campaign for a better collision detection model, or scale the units down quite a bit.
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SpikedHelmet
MC: Legacy & Spring 1944 Developer
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Post by SpikedHelmet » 26 Dec 2005, 15:50

At that scale it'd be impossible to have very many of those mighty bitches.

Thats another thing, the scale. I do want to keep the scale as close to accurate as possible. itty bitty fighters that are more like little buzzing bees than anything else with emphasis on Capital ship detail (and weapons :D)

Anyway, here, I've redone the TIE to a much more simplified detail:

Image

131 faces.

Conceptually speaking, what should be done with the Star Destroyers fighter compliment ability? I was thinking making the Star Destroyer a factory that can pump out its own fighters (with varying degrees of construction speed depending on the size. Ie, an Executor will be busting the fighters out near-instantly, while a Victory class constr speed would be a lot slower)

I'm going to make some concept models to figure out overall size of the capital ships. Depending on whatever size I choose I may end up nerfing the fighter models even more to something no more than 20 faces considering there may be 500 or more swarming in a large capital fleet :D
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j5mello
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Post by j5mello » 26 Dec 2005, 17:23

if u need ideas for cap ships or anything else check out this:

http://warlords.swrebellion.com/gallery/

this is the gallery for the hw2 SW conversion. u can use this for references or whatever u like. scroll down until u see the album Starships.

there are a lot of ships both OT and prequel stuff so browse around

ps if put in the link without "gallery/" ull hit their main page
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SpikedHelmet
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Post by SpikedHelmet » 26 Dec 2005, 17:27

Thanks, j5.

I wouldn't have a problem making this a side-thing for SWS. The only problem is the scale, which will definately be very different (wee tiny TIE fighters!)
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Dragon45
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Post by Dragon45 » 26 Dec 2005, 18:54

Heh... Warlords... I worked with EvilEJedi (the creator of Warlords) helping him make the website for the mod and clenaed up his posts etc... of course lal this was before Warlords became huge and well-known... ha ha haha.... good 'ole EvilE.... hehehe...


ANYWAY!

Spiked, do downlaod the last good release of SWTAWIS and play it. You'll see how tiny starfighters are and how quickly they can be built etc. It's not uncommon by 5 minute mark to have each player have thirty fighteres crusing around. L1 cap ships generally come out by 10 minute mark, and then pain followss once you have hoardes of corvettes and carracks clogging the spaceways. :D
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SpikedHelmet
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Post by SpikedHelmet » 26 Dec 2005, 22:02

I'm thinking that the entire buildtree for this will revolve around everything starship. For instance, instead of fighter plants, fighters will solely be built out of Star destroyers, and depending on which Star Destroyer. For instance,a small Victory or Venetor will be able to build your standard TIE, TIE/ln, TIE Interceptor, TIE/rc/Vanguard, TIE/gt and TIE Bomber. Imperator's will have those plus TIE Avenger, TIE/fc, TIE Boarding Craft. And Supers may have TIE Hunter, TIE Defender, and TIE Phantom. You know? The cap ships will double as fighter factories. Build an advanced cap ship and you get advanced fighters. W00t!

Each side will probably start out with your basic Ship Plant as Commanders. Just one structure. It will build all the Cap ships, and the Cap ships will build the fighters.

I am not, however, up-to-date with my Ep I/II/III ship designs. I've pretty much got the Empire's ships down but outside of the Mon Calamari ships, and the others shown in ANH/TESB/RoTJ, but I don't know much about other stuff the Rebels might be using (older fighter designs etc).

Fighters first, I know about the obvious X-Wing, Y-Wing, B-Wing, E-Wing, A-Wing.. that's about it.
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Gnomre
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Post by Gnomre » 26 Dec 2005, 23:19

Seriously, check out SWTA's aircraft if you need ideas :P
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Warlord Zsinj
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Post by Warlord Zsinj » 27 Dec 2005, 01:28

Great to hear you intend to go with the scale...

I liked the SWTAWIS approach to construction, myself.

What you would do is have tiny little buildings, which looked like they were huge buildings looked at from far away. So you are building on the surface of a planet, which is really very far away.

The idea, also, was to mike the resources:
"Manpower" (metal)
and
"Logistics" (energy)

That way, all metal patches would look like little cities viewed from far away (very easy to do in Spring, you just make a little city on a map, and give it a metal value. You could probably even make the city out of a texture on the map rather than features). Then what you do is give each side metal extractors, but call them "Imperial Garrison" or "Rebel Diplomatic Envoy". That way, it is like each side has captured the city, and now can use its manpower to power its warmachine.

I believe SWTAWIS was going to go even further and have little armies of stormtroopers (where one unit had either lots of tiny pinprick stormtroopers, or one big one representing a legion of stormtroopers) and tiny ATATs, so you had to fight a battle for a planet in space, and then once you fought that battle, you had to land your ground forces and duke it out on the ground. But that might be a little further than you intend to go.
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Dragon45
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Post by Dragon45 » 27 Dec 2005, 04:22

I'm rather "for" the spaceships-build-fighters idea; it sounds pretty cool and would relaly make gameplay dynamics interesting. And thanks to Spring, even if you have your entire fleet selected, simply clicking on the appropriate unit in the build menu will cause all ships that build it to produce that amount. Very handy.


However, you migt want to make it so that the number of starfighters any one ship can "support" at any given time is limited; so that, lets say, a Star Destroyer can only have 60 of its fighters at any one time, a carrack could have only its 3 fighters out at any one time, etc. That bit might require either some minor engine modification or some very heavy scripting, but it would definately be worthwhile. In any case, you could probably implement it after everything else is in place.


And yes, Zsinj si correct in his statements about where SWTAWIS was intended to "go"- grand designs, but never implemented ;) Perhaps your luck will fare better :)
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SpikedHelmet
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Post by SpikedHelmet » 27 Dec 2005, 09:21

Gnome wrote:Seriously, check out SWTA's aircraft if you need ideas :P
I have been.

Can I use the sounds? :D
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Gnomre
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Post by Gnomre » 27 Dec 2005, 10:03

As far as I'm concerned, you should just use our entire set of aircraft (or at least the ones you plan on including anyway) sounds and all, resized of course, and focus on getting the capital ships ironed out. They may be lowish poly, but at the scale we're talking it shouldn't matter all that much. Those models can always be redone later, and we plan on doing that anyway, so get to work on the big stuff!! ;P

I do still have that Star Destroyer zsinj linked to above if you want it. It has 8 independent turbolaser batteries scripted in too, though those were put in before fire arcs in the FBI existed, so that'd need done. The body of it still also needs a texture job. It's quite large (larger than one of the central island things on CPIA), but of course it can be scaled down as necessary.
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SpikedHelmet
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Post by SpikedHelmet » 27 Dec 2005, 12:41

Team, give it to me!

And I've already done TIE Fighter, TIE/ln, TIE Interceptor, X-wing and Y-wing low-poly (and quite tiny) models... for the past hour or so I've been testing out 100-fighter dogfights! Its sweet. All I need is capital ships for those fighters to be flying around (and out of). Don't worry about me wasting time making new models. I just did the Interceptor in roughly 10 minutes, from model, script, fbi, weapons, textures, to seeing it kick some ass ingame.

ANyway yeah gimme some of 'dem models!

What capital ships does SWTA or TWIS have? I may 'nick whatever I can outside of fighters, ie corvettes or w/e. I remember, but dont remember if it was SWTA(SWS) or TWIS that had a Corellian Corvette...
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Maelstrom
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Post by Maelstrom » 27 Dec 2005, 14:53

Download SWTA and try it. Not only will you be able to test the fightrs ingame already, you can take them straight from the mod file and port them into yours. Plus you get a wiked mod with them.
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SpikedHelmet
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Post by SpikedHelmet » 27 Dec 2005, 17:46

Already DL'd it, though havent gotten to play it yet. I was too impatient and went and made a Corellian Corvette anyway.


Poor Corellian Corvette :( you won't be running anymore blockades, no sirree....
Image
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SpikedHelmet
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Post by SpikedHelmet » 27 Dec 2005, 18:13

200 Rebel Fighters vs. 300 Imperial Fighters

Image

= Rebel Victory!
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SpikedHelmet
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Post by SpikedHelmet » 27 Dec 2005, 18:28

This is something (keyword something... I lost count) like 700 TIE Fighters/Interceptors vs. 300 or so X-Wings/Y-Wings and 5 Corvettes.

Image
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Dragon45
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Post by Dragon45 » 27 Dec 2005, 18:55

Spiked you dumbass, we have a corr corvette, corr gunship, carrack, dreadnaught, lancer, Y-4, Gallofree, and Neb-B Already in there, as well as the construction ships both sides start with, not to mention the plants they are built in. sigh. :P

Let me link you to the file directly, you lazy bastard:

http://www.tauniverse.com/forum/attachm ... ntid=10366
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SpikedHelmet
MC: Legacy & Spring 1944 Developer
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Post by SpikedHelmet » 27 Dec 2005, 19:58

No offense, but...

Image
...I think I'll keep mine.

I noticed the ISD files in there, but when I try to export the models (in .dxf format) and open them in my 3D prog it errors out. Effectively I can not look at them! WAAAAAAGGHHHHHH! The model looks nice in 3do builder (though I can spot some errors! :D) it's far, far better than nothing. The maker of that wouldn't happen to also have a Victory, Venetor or Executor-Class starship models lying about? :)
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