New Game Development: Star Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds II - Page 4

New Game Development: Star Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds II

Discuss game development here, from a distinct game project to an accessible third-party mutator, down to the interaction and design of individual units if you like.

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FireStorm_
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Re: New Game Development: Star Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds

Post by FireStorm_ » 28 Nov 2013, 04:32

Not bad. Not bad at all :-)

Everyone will probably agree on that, except for the person that would texture it, if it was going to be. And of course if anyone was most likely to do that, I suppose it would be you. :-)

So I think a next good step to take might be to learn how to texture a bit more extensively. But I wouldn't try to texture this model, at least not right away.

Perhaps just a man made from 6 boxes, or a broom, or a sword or something, or maybe a cactus, I don't know, but something with a more manageable number of faces. Or maybe you can take smoth up on his offer; he probably has something that can be useful in that regard.

I also think that the complexity one adds in a model might add to the work of the texturing and UV-mapping process. So I think it might be helpful to learn to think a bit ahead when it comes to texturing. So I think getting more familiar with texturing and UV-mapping might in turn improve you modelling skill.

Of course it is up to you and of course still feel free to ask stuff :-)
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smoth
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Re: New Game Development: Star Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds

Post by smoth » 28 Nov 2013, 05:13

I didn't offer anything but posting shots of example meshes
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Pyrometheous
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Re: New Game Development: Star Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds

Post by Pyrometheous » 28 Nov 2013, 06:56

I will make my first texture efforts tomorrow. @smooth I would like to see a couple of your wireframes for comparison.
@firestorm_ I will model a simply sword and play around with textures ( also have zero experience in this field, but I think I should be able to use blender for that too), this should be fun. Also this may sound dumb but what is UV mapping? I will look it up tomorrow as well when I research texturing tutorials, but wanted to ask in prep for an answer I don't understand via Google search.
Thank you both for your advice and critique. I didn't realize that a complex model meant difficult texturing. Does anyone know if there is a way to reduce the default cylinder polygon s in blender when you add> Mesh>Cylinder ?
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smoth
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Re: New Game Development: Star Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds

Post by smoth » 28 Nov 2013, 08:08

Give me some names and I will post them. you can go here to see some of the models in game etc... of course it is thanksgiving here so I will be a bit delayed.
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knorke
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Re: New Game Development: Star Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds

Post by knorke » 28 Nov 2013, 09:26

That droid does not look too bad. Not an easy first model I think, it has quite strange and complex shapes.

Took look at wireframes you can use http://springrts.com/wiki/Upspring to export the .3o models of spring games back into a format that blender can open, for example into .3ds.

Some lines in your wireframe in http://springrts.com/phpbb/viewtopic.ph ... 40#p550645 indeed look strange/wrong. It is somewhat important to have "clean" topology.
Otherwise the model will look wrong in game (shading or light and reflection might look wrong or glitchy) or UV-mapping is harder/impossible or other annoyances.
http://www.3dbuzz.com/forum/threads/157746

If the droid model is finished imo do not start new model but instead try to get it working ingame. Even if you are not completly happy its look yet.
UV-mapping, texturing, scripting and seeing it ingame will show you many things that will be helpful for future modelig.
Also this may sound dumb but what is UV mapping?
Kind of "unfolding" the 3D model onto a 2D plane. On the 2D plane you then paint the texture.
The screenshots here explain it well imo:
http://wiki.openclonk.org/w/Modelling_W ... #UV_unwrap
http://www.geeks3d.com/20090925/tutoria ... v-mapping/

Non-technical blabla since you mentioned plans etc:
After a while you will reach a point where you think "Oh, now I know enough to create a model in one day, then another day to make texture and write a script."
So while you then could finish many units in short time by now it might feel too boring to actually do it :shock:
Modeling/texturing might feel repetive and not as creative anymore.
Scripting units is from programming/algorythm/math point of view not very interessting. (Sometimes there is something fancy, but for 90% of unit scripts something very basic is enough)
At start it is interessting and exciting to figure out everything but eventually it becomes routine and routine is boring...
Or your skill (or standards) have improved and now you want to redo all your old models: That is okay but if you do it too often your game might never finish. Which is also okay, just something to think about.
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Pyrometheous
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Re: New Game Development: Star Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds

Post by Pyrometheous » 28 Nov 2013, 20:33

@Smoth Ok, the RX78-2 for now, if you wouldn't mind a few different angles of that I would greatly appreciate it, BTW great work on your game so far (my opinion based on screenshots not installation/game play), I find it inspirational at the moment.

@Knorke, Thank you!!! The UV map stuff you sent me was very clear, It reminds me a lot of Pepakura (which I've dabbled with to create Halo Armor in the past). I'm both excited and not about my next steps, the 3D modeling part was both harder and easier than expected in differant ways, but I think I'm going to take your advice along with others in this forum. I am going to model a simple sword, play around UV mapping and Texturing, then go back to the ASP-7 unit, and work on the UV mapping/texturing, then I will work on putting the ASP-7 into the game. I think my goal is to have all of this completed by Sunday December 8th(mostly delayed by the amount of free time I will have between now and then).

This coming up week I will study some lua and get a grasp of it, take a deeper look into the tutorial game and see what I can do as far as begin construction on my game, If time permits I will attempt to create a Command Center for the Galactic Empire Civ, so that I can start experimenting with my own content and unit creation ect...

Well wish me luck, and to everyone I just wanted to express that I am thankful for all of the support I've received on this project, and wish everyone a Happy Thanksgiving!

Edit: So I played around with UV mapping on a simple sword, I discovered why more polies = nightmare, also I'm quite sure that the way I mirrored the model in my ASP-7 was not the right way, I opened it up in blender to create the UV mapping, and discovered that only half of the faces in edit mode are selectable, also the head intersects itself on the left and right. What is the proper way of mirroring the object? And why is it that only the right side (camera's left side) available to select?
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FireStorm_
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Re: New Game Development: Star Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds

Post by FireStorm_ » 28 Nov 2013, 22:22

I getting more and more familliar with blender:
Image
Yes I made one too :-)

Ok, here's what i think some handy terminology:

Imagine a mast and an axis with two blades, forming a windmill.

If the windmill was a Spring unit, it would have 2 pieces for animation: the mast and the spinning blades.

I believe Blender objects correspond with Spring-unit pieces.
You might want to figure out how many pieces or objects your droid would have, and try too keep them separate objects.

I think Blender objects can hold multiple meshes.

for instance: One cylinder mesh and two identical fan-blade-shapes meshes can together form a single object.

So, I'd try to mirror separate meshes, and get more familiar with how objects and meshes are related to each other.

I hope that helps.
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smoth
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Re: New Game Development: Star Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds

Post by smoth » 29 Nov 2013, 04:50

Pyrometheous wrote:@Smoth Ok, the RX78-2 for now, if you wouldn't mind a few different angles of that I would greatly appreciate it, BTW great work on your game so far (my opinion based on screenshots not installation/game play), I find it inspirational at the moment.
It is one of my older models but here you go.
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Anarchid
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Re: New Game Development: Star Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds

Post by Anarchid » 29 Nov 2013, 11:20

So, I'd try to mirror separate meshes, and get more familiar with how objects and meshes are related to each other.
Afaik object can only hold one mesh, but i'm not a blender pro. What i know for a fact is that if you Join two objects, their meshes become one.

I have no current knowledge about what happens to Grouped objects during export as collada and import via assimp.

Of course, you can just keep them Grouped for now either way, and then just Join once you think the model is done and it's timet to animate.

By the way, blender has an interesting scale correlation to spring. One blender unit is one spring "elmo". Elmo is actually a very small unit, so if you want your units fairly large in Spring, they'll have to be humongous in Blender. It's a bit painful to upscale them after you've set up the piece hierarchy, so better to do it early.
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Pyrometheous
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Re: New Game Development: Star Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds

Post by Pyrometheous » 29 Nov 2013, 14:50

@smoth, Thank you!!! I noticed that the shield was separated from the model there, I've been curious for some time, the ASP-7 droid does have a few "accessories" that it uses for fishing/farming/etc. Would I create additional ASP-7 droid models with those particular accessories equipped, or just build them to the side of my ASP-7 and they can be hidden/animated via spring once in game.

@Firestorm_ So Based on your thing with objects, I was wondering if there was any way of making the arms and legs separate objects within Blender? Because Blender tells me they are all one object. Also, @%$#^%$#^ to the whole UV mapping. Very frustrating, I messed around with it for about 3 hours yesterday and I both broke and fixed my model in doing it. I think I'm just not fully in tune with the blender software yet, and as a consequence it became pretty frustration pretty quick, I'll have another go at it tomorrow. Today is recovery day from Thanksgiving (such good food :-) )

@Anarchid, How big are we talking? Should I be scalling my ASP-7 to be HUGE now? I'm not sure how many blender units tall he is now, I will say starting from scratch with HUGE in mind would be easier I think as it makes deleting excessive polygons way easier.

@all I've figured out how to mirror upon the Z-axis to my liking, and OMG ASP-7 looks way better now, very happy about it. Also Going to repeat an earlier question as I have not yet discovered the answer myself. Is there an easy way of adding meshes that use less polygons then the default. A lot of my high poly nightmare has come from the Add > Mesh > Geometric object here, and the UV mapping, as Firestorm_ pointed out, is hellishly blerg to deal with. I think I'm just going to re-make the model with less pollys or try to reduce the ones in my mesh (possibly also try to make the limbs separate objects too, if I can figure that out)
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Anarchid
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Re: New Game Development: Star Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds

Post by Anarchid » 29 Nov 2013, 15:10

You can check the model dimensions (also object coordinates, etc) in the right panel of the 3d window.

As for how huge you have to do it, it's also a game scale question, so you'll have to figure it out for yourself. I suggest you don't overdo it just yet, since you're modelling for now anyway. Scaling can be safely relegated to right before you start assembling the object/piece hierarchy for later animation.
or just build them to the side of my ASP-7 and they can be hidden/animated via spring once in game.
This can work very well.
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Pyrometheous
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Re: New Game Development: Star Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds

Post by Pyrometheous » 29 Nov 2013, 17:42

@anarchid, Thank you, I will work on these accessories later.

Also I think I've created the UV map, is it supposed to look like this? it looks like there are some overlaps.

EDIT: I don't think I understand Seams very well, I highlighted everything and marked seam, maybe thats why the UV map is such a mess?
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smoth
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Re: New Game Development: Star Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds

Post by smoth » 29 Nov 2013, 18:27

Pyrometheous wrote:@smoth, Thank you!!! I noticed that the shield was separated from the model there, I've been curious for some time, the ASP-7 droid does have a few "accessories" that it uses for fishing/farming/etc. Would I create additional ASP-7 droid models with those particular accessories equipped, or just build them to the side of my ASP-7 and they can be hidden/animated via spring once in game.
It is best to try and model the unit and all accessories putting them onto a single texture. because eventually you will realize you have a massive amount of texture usage. It is why several of us use atlases. You could show/hide parts in spring scripts as needed but most of us find it cleaner to just have the necessary parts only. for example here I have several parts where I am using the same texture and by using different ones, I create different units.
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Pyrometheous
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Re: New Game Development: Star Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds

Post by Pyrometheous » 29 Nov 2013, 18:40

@Smoth (jaw dropped) so all of that is in the same file? So for, I'd just need to include new objects within the same plane and use the same texture UV map for all of it? Or am I misunderstanding?
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FireStorm_
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Re: New Game Development: Star Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds

Post by FireStorm_ » 29 Nov 2013, 19:30

The long diagonal lines may indicate some untidy geometry, but I can't tell.

No, I don't think you are misunderstanding.
Overlap is often what you want as a texture-er, I think.

Imagine, if you will, a cube UV-mapped.
The image would show 6 squares corresponding with the 6 sides of the cube.

But what if it was a crate with 6 identical sides?
Then the image would only need to show one square, that can be used for all the sides.
In that case you'd want to cut all the edges of your cube.

If you had a model of a unit that was an Imperial supply location that looked like a collection of some crates, still one image showing one side could suffice. (but the model might be considered boring to look at by some :-) )

But if we were talking about a hypothetical simple barrel, I'd cut the bottom and top off, and cut one edge along it's length, so the side-faces stay connect and form a strip. If I keep the strip intact on the uv-map, it's easier for me to, for instance, write something on the side of the barrel.

You may want to think about what parts of your model are unique. And what parts are unique but mirror-able, so to speak, along a face (i.e. head). And what parts can be used more than once (i.e. arms and legs).

If you want your droid to have a symmetrical face you could texture it before mirroring. But If you'd wanted to the droid to have a scar on one side of the face you may want to mirror the head before uv-mapping, but you'd have less space to spent on the image.

I hope that helps :-)
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Pyrometheous
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Re: New Game Development: Star Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds

Post by Pyrometheous » 29 Nov 2013, 19:47

@Firestorm_ are you on Google Hangouts or skype? if so would you be interested it talking to me this weekend and sort of going over it together. I can use Chrome Remote Desktop to share my screen we can discuss the UV mapping a little more in detail. I think I understand what you're saying, but I didn't really grasp what you meant by cut all the edges of the cube?

I'm sorry if this is over presumptuous to ask, I'm just really struggling to really comprehend the texturing process. With the cup, it was all very generalized, but I really want to do this right for easy import into spring. Also is there a way I could map certain faces to just be "player color" like the chest/wrists in the original 2D sprite from my previous image?

As far as ASP-7 is concerned I'm happy with him being completely symmetrical. I've used the mirror modifier on the z-axis with merg checked. Will the textures applied to the original side reflect the "mirrored" side? Does order matter (before/after mirror modifier applied)?

Also, overlapping pieces in the UV map, Won't that disrupt any coloration/texturing that I would apply to the .png I export (and later I assume I re-import?)

Again I apologize for my ignorance here, once I've mastered this step I will most appreciative, just difficult at the moment to grasp for some reason.
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smoth
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Re: New Game Development: Star Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds

Post by smoth » 29 Nov 2013, 19:54

Pyrometheous wrote:@Smoth (jaw dropped) so all of that is in the same file?
the same wings file(I don't use blender). not the same spring model file(I use s3o not the assimp blender).
Pyrometheous wrote:So for, I'd just need to include new objects within the same plane and use the same texture UV map for all of it? Or am I misunderstanding?
I am not sure what you are asking but here is my attempt to answer.

Uv Mapping:
Imagine taking an orange, peeling it and laying it out on a piece of paper. that is what we call "unwrapping" for the model. That is what a uvmap is.

So what you would do is model each piece and place them all on the same uv space. I don't really know the specifics of blender, I have not used their newer stuff but you will likely still have to merge all your objects into 1 before you start setting up your uvs.
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Re: New Game Development: Star Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds

Post by FireStorm_ » 29 Nov 2013, 20:43

@Pyrometheous
No, I'm sorry :-)
I also see this moment in the process more as one where I'd like to be less leading in what step to take next.

That's because I feel that, as of now, I've explained the most important parts of the basics, and that has resulted in a tread full of terms and phrases you can use to get the more specific stuff from on-line manuals and/or tutorials.

I did my best to help, and also remember I've worked with 3dsmax, maya, autocad, sketch-up, solidworks, various sculpt tools, various 1stPersonShooter engines or editors... the list goes on, but it doesn't include that much Blender yet, which I warned for. :-)

I think you are quite qualified to try to explore realising your ideas.

And when I have a quick question (a question I hope the community might answer because I've looked quite a while and couldn't find the expected solution but I feel the forum takes to long, and/or I want to see who's in my time-zone) then I'd try chat in lobby first. That is also an option you could consider.

So, still feel free to ask anything of course. :-)
Last edited by FireStorm_ on 29 Nov 2013, 20:54, edited 1 time in total.
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Pyrometheous
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Re: New Game Development: Star Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds

Post by Pyrometheous » 29 Nov 2013, 20:51

@Smoth, Thank you for that explanation, thats kind of what I assumed, I'm glad to know I'm on the right track.

@Firestorm_ Thank you as well, I totally understand, I will work very hard this weekend and figuring this out and looking up all that I need to. I believe I can do this, and I hope to texture ASP-7 by monday, and script him into spring within the fortnight. I'm gonna be busy busy busy.
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Pyrometheous
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Re: New Game Development: Star Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds

Post by Pyrometheous » 18 Jan 2014, 22:41

I did it!!!!! Wooohoooo!
Confession: Didn't work on this as much as I'd hoped over the holiday, but I just now finished my UV mapp (totally had to reduce poly count) I'm very excited, what do you guys think? :-)

Now I'm going to work on texturing, I've downloaded and installed Gimp, I believe this little ASP-7 will be very simple to do, but any advice or recommendations would be great! As always thank you all for your support. I hope I didn't disappoint you in my long delay. I'm hoping to make more and more progress every week going forward, but I suppose we'll see. I'm going to try and build the Tech Level 1 Command Center after I get the ASP-7 textured, and after I have those two units I'll be working on importing them into Spring.

I'm so very excited about this. UV mapping was the biggest pain ever. I have sooo learned my lesson as far as poly count goes, I had far too much detail (I kept finding surprise faces on my model that were not doing anything useful at all.)
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