New Game Development: Star Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds II

[Warlord Zsinj]

I haven't really had the chance to look at it, so I don't really know what state it's in, and to be honest haven't really had a look at RTS's or gaming in general for a while so you may be right. But still, star wars is star wars, and free is free

[Pyrometheous]

I guess my first response goes to smoth. I really do not want to "Steal" or "use" someone else's content in a mod like that. My first attempt at doing this project started as a mod for AOE3 because of the "I'd like to make x look like y" factor. My biggest shortcoming was granny 3D, and any civs I made had no AI to them. I really like Firestorm_'s idea of doing all of my own 3D models, taking my time and doing this right.

That brings me to Firestorm_, I will look into the Wings3D you recommend this weekend, and during the time off I have in December. In my past experience I really just used zbrush, and follows some tutorials on youtube, which landed me toward a twisted horn (no textures) it looked really neat and I will post the tutorial vid if I find it again.

On the note for the games I've made in the past, I've made 3 during a game programming class a few years back. It was using dark basic (a language made for the ease of game programming). I'll look for my code if you'd like to see it. All my projects were in 2D using sprite sheets and movement on screen. I made one with a cat in space that had to dodge rockets, you had 9 lives, and the rockets got faster with each one you evaded, it was very simple, there was no score feature, and I remember having to learn how to keep the move sprites all together with the functions for movement so the rockets didn't blow up your previous (now invisible) kitties.

My second project was the semester project, originally intended to be a chronic trigger like game, it turns out RPGs (even simple ones) are extremely difficult to construct in a month. We had to scrap most progress and turn it into a sorta 2D hack and slash between magus and chrono in a library. We were most proud at creating a function that allowed the movement in the map by creating multiple layers in the map to give an illusion of depth (the part that perhaps took the longest).

The third was a mod of the second that I turned into a proposal for my wife, creating sprites from movements in final fantasy 9 (although they were somewhat choppy), I had a Moogle fly in with a letter of proposal for my girlfriend at the time. It was a cute short game, with really only a couple minutes of game play.

If I can re-locate the screens, or code I am happy to share it here. On the note of SW:IW, I've only seen screen shots and video. I would like to download and play it to get a feel for the game and see if it is similar to what I'd like to do, and really to understand the potential of spring more deeply, it is completely possible that spring is not the platform I want for my project, I think SW:IW would give me some needed perspective.

@smoth what is a mutator, I've never used one, and I'm not familiar with it. I understand the concept, but it almost seems like your suggesting a mod manager.

@Warlord Zsinj I am so not requesting the keys of SW:IW, I feel that would disrespect the developers of the game. I would most certainly like to "prove" myself before involving myself in any projects anyone might be working on. I very much so understand your perspective of a new guy coming in and making lofty goals and having nothing behind them to back it up. Most of my experience in programming has come from school, my recreational programming has primarily been to resolve little issues in my life. Mostly it was C++ and C# stuff. Loved the gui builder in C# so I dabbled in that the most. Now a days I've primarily written equations for complex spreadsheets for financial tracking. I will not be posting those. It is very true that I have just above zero experience working with spring. I think I've downloaded a map, the tutorial game, and thats about it so far. Its only been a week since I've considered spring, I only came here to ask for advice on how to start. Mostly I'm hearing that it would be best to start off slowly.

@Nemo, thank you. I believe my first step is going to be to complete extraction of the content of the original game for my analysis and creating some base units/animations using the Wings3D program that Firestorm_ has suggested.

I do hope I'm not giving anyone the impression that I'm here to steal others work, or have others do my work for me. Thus far I've gotten a great deal of insight on my project, and I'd like to reassure you all that I will deliver, maybe slowly, but I am still giving myself delusions about having something by the end of the year (even it its just a command center and a worker).

Thank you all once again

[Forboding Angel]

The irony has to do with the existence of *A in spring. It was a jab at everyone here but you.

[smoth]

@smoth what is a mutator, I've never used one, and I'm not familiar with it. I understand the concept, but it almost seems like your suggesting a mod manager.

A mutator is kind of like like a modification of spring projects.

[Warlord Zsinj]

@pyro - Gnomre and I are (were?) the lead developers for Imperial Winter. Suggest you get your hands dirty with Spring, give IW a go, try to play around on the back end and see how you go.

[FireStorm_]

On playing IW:
I believe at the moment IW only works with Spring version 94 (not with the very recently implemented Spring 95.
So you can get that version before the latest one from the Spring homepage.

I downloaded IW by visiting the Tibanna Host, using a Spring multilayer-lobby. I clicked on the multilayer-room and download the game and a map, and after that started a single player game with the lobby.

On modelling:
z-brush is what people call a sculpting tool. It allows for a very high level of detail. In my opinion it is less suitable for creating rts models.

There are two keywords, or search terms, that one might want to use to get started:

- concept character sheet

When I use this in an image search function on the internet, i get images of a humanoid figures seen from the front and the side.
I'm inclined say such an image is a requirement. You can use existing ones, modify one, or draw one yourself. It doesn't have to be as nice as the ones you see online; it's about proportions.

The other term is:

- low poly 3d character

You might want to look at some of those too (and they shouldn't look like Z-brush stuff ) to get an idea of what the end result might look like. What exactly to model is up to you of course, but if you'd showed me a picture of something i can easer tell someone how i'd try to do it.

On marketing IW:
I don't think it happened nor do I think that ship has sailed. Indie, free, and opensource-games blogs exist. That would be my starting point.

[Pyrometheous]

Hey FireStorm_ I've taken your advice, and I'm really excited about learning how to model. I've found some pictures from multiple angles of the first model I'd like to make. The Imperial ASP-7 labor droid, which will ultimately be my worker for the galactic empire. I image these images should help, I will downloading the wings3D software this weekend and attempting to do some tutorials, are there any specific tutorials you'd recomend beginning with? Or should I just look through the documentation and feel my way through the program?

[Anarchid]

Btw, if you ever intend to animate your dudes, you might want to escalate to Blender eventually.

Luckily, the basics of working in 3d are pretty transferable.

[Pyrometheous]

I take it that Wings3D does not support animations then? Would it be better then, to start out in Blender? If I do transfer programs, will anything be lost from the original model I create? Or should I learn with Wings3D, and then create the models I wish to use in game in Blender?

My questions may seem kind of dumb, and I realize this, I've just not had the best luck with creating 3D models and I'd like to make my own process of learning and developing as easy and enjoyable as possible.

Thank you!!!! :-D

[Anarchid]

Currently, the actual difference, as far as Spring is concerned, comes in the fact that Blender can produce models in .dae format, complete with piece hierarchy, which can then be directly imported into Spring (as long as you follow some simple rules about what not to do).

Models made in wings require piece-by-piece assembling into an s3o model in Upspring, or import and assembly into .dae, in Blender.

Animations are a near-future goal. Wings doesn't have them at all, and will never have. Blender - for now - lacks an easy way to export them: but that's going to change pretty soon, i hope.

Until then, animations are manually coded for either upspring or blender produced models.

[zwzsg]

Blender is sure more powerful, but it's also a lot more complicated.
The Blender GUI in particular is insane.

Wings3D is much simpler to learn, and imo more adapted to making model for a game like Spring.

[FireStorm_]

First I think Anarchid makes a good point.
If I didn't personally think Blender has a very tricky User-interface, I'd recommend Blender. Wings3D might keep things unclouded, which i think is good at first, but you might find you'll miss those 'clouds', so to speak, later on. (I imagine one can sculpt in Blender, for instance.)

More importantly, Blender files need little conversion to use them directly for Spring, if I remember correctly.

But knowing some basics seldom hurts I think.
(For me the principle is the same in all 3D modelling software)



Specific tutorials also depend on your preference, but if I'd had to look for them now I'd check Youtube. We also have some documentation on wings3d and Blender within the community. (links on the Spring Wiki)
I advise to follow this one, but try to texture a single plane. The image for your texture then should be the Concept picture of the labor droid.

If all goes well, you'll have a flat droid , and some handy basic knowledge. Form there it will be easier to do step 2: make a droid next to it that will a look bit more 3D.
I'm inclined to say, check back when you made it that far, (or if you tried anything at all.) Then I'll know what tip is probably best to provide next.

Edit:
I got super ninja-ed
Animations in Spring are written in code. As far as I know using the animations made in a 3d software environment are not yet possible, but may be someday.
It isn't much harder btw and allows for more freedom i think, but I wanna say don't worry about everything at once

[zwzsg]

Wings3D handles only the modelling and UV-mapping, so after you'll have to paint the texture in an image editor, re-rig the model in UpSpring, and write the animation script (plus a few stat sheet to make a complete Spring unit).

But then it's not like Blender models can directly be plonked in Spring to get a complete, animated unit either.

[Pyrometheous]

Thank you all for your feedback and advice, it sounds like (to me at least) that it might be more beneficial in the long run for me to learn Blender from scratch, even though it'll be more complicated at first. I am planning on making this my weekend project, I plan on taking this very slowly, and practicing my patience with doing this right and creating good habits to go by so I don't screw myself over a month or so down the road. For now I'm going to focus on the basics of developing the model itself. I will look into integrating that model with animations only after I've gotten a model made that I can be proud of. I will post my progress this weekend and ask for help/advice if I need it. Thank you again!

[smoth]

post it in GAME DEVELOPMENT. this subforum is for community discussion.

[Pyrometheous]

Hey Smoth, super dumb questions I'm sure. Do I post a new topic? Or is there a way I can just re-classify this thread?

[Google_Frog]

Moved.

To start with I think you should look at various Spring games to get a feel for what has already been done. This will indicate what sort of content needs to be created and the types of mechanics which are possible. The current games shouldn't be taken as an exhaustive list of mechanics but it is good to know some of what can be done.

Then I think you should look at the structure of a basic game and mess around with the various parts. Below is a link to an example game which works with the current engine (someone else may have a more up to date or official version).

http://code.google.com/p/zero-k/source/ ... examplemod

The wiki is useful, particularly here: http://springrts.com/wiki/Gamedev:Main

[CarRepairer]

I am also a programmer, not a 3D modeler, and I recommend you start with Blender and not Wings3D. I took the time to learn Blender and the extra time spent learning it was more than recouped by the time saved by avoiding the Wings3D -> Upspring -> Spring workflow. This Wings3D workflow would apply not only when first creating models but sometimes editing, because you might want to maintain your updates in the original model file and not just the s3o created by Upspring. http://springrts.com/wiki/TutorialBlenderWorkFlow This tutorial is mostly for converting existing spring models back into blender but it has some information that can be used for starting from scratch.

We programmers notice basic rules in life that derive from coding. One thing that is almost inevitable is that work and projects often scale up far more than we anticipate. Any steps we take in the early stages to automate, or at least shave off steps from manual work, are rewarded handsomely in the future.

I also recommend you log onto the lobby and join the #moddev channel. That's the best place to get real time answers to your questions.

[Pyrometheous]

I'm very excited about this, I've downloaded Blender and installed on my desktop. I'm hoping to have something to show for my efforts by this evening. I should arrive home in about 4 hours, I'm going to try some simple youtube tutorials at first, then maybe saturday, I'll try to make the ASP-7 Imperial Labor Droid.

[Pyrometheous]

I know I'm a huge dork for posting this, but I made my first 3D object, and I think it looks awesome!!! Doing youtube tutorials today, going to try making custom stuff tomorrow. I'm so damned proud of myself