Absolute Annihilation: Spring[old]

Decimator · Post by **Decimator** » 14 Feb 2006, 18:03

-Bladewings (the little paralyzer drones) need to get nerfed against anti-air units, taking 2-4x longer to paralyze them.

Agreed, this is better than the nerf I proposed

-Rocket spider kbots shouldnt fire at air, they just end up causing massive friendly fire mess

Probably a good idea

-Con vehs should be made 20% faster, con kbots 20% slower, con vehs are still way behind in cost/effectiveness

Con kbots shouldn't build slower, but con vehicles should definetely build considerably faster since they cost 50% more

-Dragon teeth shoul be made 20-30% cheaper and build 50-100% faster, i rarely see good players put them to use since it takes ages and its expensive to set them up.

The only thing that can build dteeth quickly is a comm, probably should be changed

-Adv solars are way too vulnerable and are actually less efficient than normal solars. Most players will agree with me that being big and bulky (coupled with high HP when closed) is actually a GOOD thing. Id givem 100 energy prodution for their current price.

I rarely use adv solars, not sure why.

-Moho exploiters do turn really slowly.

It does seem odd that they'd be poor against raiders, but a sumo can't kill one.

-Beamers do suck.

Agreed, these don't kill anything

-Yes anti-swarms are not very cost effective at all compared to missle towers, and saying they lag less cos theres fewer of them is NOT a balance excuse. Most of their missiles are wasted and fly in circlers anyway.

Anti-swarms rip bladewings and fighters apart, but could probably use a damage boost. As it is now they aren't quite good enough to make them attractive.

-ADV. Jammer towers are far too easy to build and maintain, all while rendering artillery almost useless. There are spy units and anti-jammer missiles but they arent exactly practical. Id recommend a usage energy increase (2-3x more so its noticeable late game). Yes, mobile units will provide the same coverage for cheaper, but its a lot easier to get close to jamming units does to their lower range, while the big adv towers can sit at the back of the map covering, protecting and hiding your whole base all the while costing less than a metal maker to run.

Jammers are fine; if you want it dead, use a bomber, the towers aren't exactly strong

krogothe · Post by **krogothe** » 14 Feb 2006, 18:16

Decimator wrote:
1-Con kbots shouldn't build slower, but con vehicles should definetely build considerably faster since they cost 50% more

2-Jammers are fine; if you want it dead, use a bomber, the towers aren't exactly strong

1-I mean move speeds

2- They are very cheap for what they do, so i always have spares and a bit of AA to protect them from bombers. Plus with the huge range they├óÔé¼Ôäóre hard to find even if you do manage to get scout planes thru AA to have a look.

I├óÔé¼Ôäód prefer to see them completely removed. They always turn late game into a slow, painful crawl and reduce the tactics and strategy to a massive unit grinding slog. Its just like world war 1 with massive defended trenches across the middle of the map and constant pouring of units into them, claiming inch by inch until the maps taken or someone gets enough krogs/krows/nukes. It's silly. It's boring. It's common.

FizWizz · Post by **FizWizz** » 14 Feb 2006, 19:03

the thing about DT that bugs me is that con vehicles and con bots have to open up their nano-assemblers and then fold them away each time they build a single DT, which is a tricky problem to fix at best. Freakers, Farks, and Comms don't really have this problem, but they can be used for much better things.

krogothe · Post by **krogothe** » 14 Feb 2006, 19:24

It would be great if the con unit's pop out animation was sped up 2-3x :)

one more:
-crashers/jethros suck compared to slashers/samsons, they are slower, weaker, cant hit ground and are marginally cheaper. they should hit hit ground so lvl1 kbots have some sort of long range stuff or at least be a LOT cheaper

mynthon · Post by **mynthon** » 14 Feb 2006, 19:48

I Agree.
I thing i love in OTA is that you can shoot to airplanes using guardians or berthas. It cuoldnt hit, but always can shoot. :)
Same fo AA units like jethros or (dont remember name) lvl1 AA rocket towers.

i think is good idea that makes difference between TA and others RTS like starcraft (and other shit).

Forboding Angel · Post by **Forboding Angel** » 14 Feb 2006, 20:46

now to my proposed changes:
-Bladewings (the little paralyzer drones) need to get nerfed against anti-air units, taking 2-4x longer to paralyze them.

I disagree, they jsut need to be more fragile.

-Rocket spider kbots shouldnt fire at air, they just end up causing massive friendly fire mess

Agreed.

-Con vehs should be made 20% faster, con kbots 20% slower, con vehs are still way behind in cost/effectiveness.

I don't agree with slowing con bots down, I do agree with speeding con veh's up a bit.

-Dragon teeth shoul be made 20-30% cheaper and build 50-100% faster, i rarely see good players put them to use since it takes ages and its expensive to set them up.

I have thought this myself on numerous occasions

-Adv solars are way too vulnerable and are actually less efficient than normal solars. Most players will agree with me that being big and bulky (coupled with high HP when closed) is actually a GOOD thing. Id givem 100 energy prodution for their current price.

Bullshit. reg solars take 4 to outproduce an adv solar. The save here is space. Plus they are a huge boost to economy.

-Moho exploiters do turn really slowly.

Umm thgey have been that speed forever. Leave it alone, they are fine.

-Beamers do suck.

Agreed, even though I love watching them.

-Yes anti-swarms are not very cost effective at all compared to missle towers, and saying they lag less cos theres fewer of them is NOT a balance excuse. Most of their missiles are wasted and fly in circlers anyway.

They are fine, leave em alone.

-ADV. Jammer towers are far too easy to build and maintain, all while rendering artillery almost useless. There are spy units and anti-jammer missiles but they arent exactly practical. Id recommend a usage energy increase (2-3x more so its noticeable late game). Yes, mobile units will provide the same coverage for cheaper, but its a lot easier to get close to jamming units does to their lower range, while the big adv towers can sit at the back of the map covering, protecting and hiding your whole base all the while costing less than a metal maker to run.

Not decided on this one.

I do love 1.43 tho. It rocks.

forbidin · Post by **forbidin** » 14 Feb 2006, 21:34

Con veh's give .4 metal and 27 energy compared to .2 and 12 of a con kbot. I do like the HP increase for con veh's tho.

Beamers are great against flashes. Hook like 3 in a triangle form within each other's range and u got a flash eating monster..........least...a long time ago they were. Their usefulness is in question. I hardly build them anymore. HLT are far better, 2-3 llt do a better job, beamers cost too much and take too long to build for what they do.

Either half the cost/bt of it and keep stats same, or beef up stats with the current costs. Ie, maybe 2-3x more damage/sec and like 25% more range.

Machiosabre · Post by **Machiosabre** » 14 Feb 2006, 23:12

Beamers are fine, they're about as good as double ltts.

SwiftSpear · Post by **SwiftSpear** » 14 Feb 2006, 23:47

FizWizz wrote:I Pity da Foo who don't use LLTs.
In the games that I've played, LLT has proven to be absolutely crucial to early defense and land grabbing. The HLLT is also quite useful too, but I wouldn't say the same about the Arm beaming counterpart. I agree with NOiZE that the exploiters turret turn rate is WAY too slow as it is. you can run in circles around one and take only negligible damage if you attack them right. Currently the only time I have seen them used and be worth it is when built in defensive lines on MetalHeck.

There's this bad OTA mindset that when you put stationary defences in an area that area should be entirely ignorable. Like you say, LLTs are absolutly monumental in most games, but having them up alone in AA won't stop anything, you need to properly back them up with other military units just so the raw hitpointage is there to successfully counter whatever attack or rush you are facing.

Leaderz0rz · Post by **Leaderz0rz** » 15 Feb 2006, 00:42

LLTs are a must for early metal extractor defense, but once you get over the phase of building your base and start pumping units you need to draw your "front line" and set up a defensive line of LLT/HLLT and units becuase you can't rely on LLTs alone to protect your resources for long.

Forboding Angel · Post by **Forboding Angel** » 15 Feb 2006, 00:47

krogothe wrote:It would be great if the con unit's pop out animation was sped up 2-3x :)

one more:
-crashers/jethros suck compared to slashers/samsons, they are slower, weaker, cant hit ground and are marginally cheaper. they should hit hit ground so lvl1 kbots have some sort of long range stuff or at least be a LOT cheaper

umm ever heard of rockos/storms? Ya they do exist, they are also quite good.

Argh · Post by **Argh** » 15 Feb 2006, 00:57

<shrugs> I don't think serious players, playing on a serious, competition map (i.e., not larger than 10/10, and not metal), would ever build ground defenses other than a few MTs to shield against early Air, based on the current balance. One Raider will easily own an LLT, let alone five of them- why waste a con's time on that when you could be boosting your econ or assisting your factory?

Caydr · Post by **Caydr** » 15 Feb 2006, 01:00

Crashers/Jethros are dedicated anti-air units and it shows - they're much deadlier against aircraft and can be more easily positioned in strategic loctions, ie, on top of hills. A cost decrease might be in order though, I suppose. Might help to motivate those lazy butts who are like "BLADEWINGS KILL EVERYTHING I HATE YOU ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111"

Forboding Angel · Post by **Forboding Angel** » 15 Feb 2006, 03:06

Caydr wrote:Might help to motivate those lazy butts who are like "BLADEWINGS KILL EVERYTHING I HATE YOU ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111"

lol, so true

Flint · Post by **Flint** » 15 Feb 2006, 05:50

BLADEWINGS KILL EVERYTHING I HATE YOU ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111

SwiftSpear · Post by **SwiftSpear** » 15 Feb 2006, 05:59

Argh wrote:<shrugs> I don't think serious players, playing on a serious, competition map (i.e., not larger than 10/10, and not metal), would ever build ground defenses other than a few MTs to shield against early Air, based on the current balance. One Raider will easily own an LLT, let alone five of them- why waste a con's time on that when you could be boosting your econ or assisting your factory?

The serious players are the ones calling BS on you with that statement. LLTs don't have a ton of hitpoints, but they do ALOT more damage per second then any of the L1 units. What this means is that 1 or 2 LLTs stratigicly placed can kill those zippers and weasles before they take down your entire metal economy in a flurry of micromanagement. You need anti fast attack ground defences or you will lose virtually every game, and if you think otherwize I'd LOVE to play you. In XTA you pepper missle towers around for the exact reason that LLT are nessicary to use in AA.

smoth · Post by **smoth** » 15 Feb 2006, 07:04

I think blade wings are core hotsex-in-a-bag... until another aircraft flies by and rapes them

MR.D · Post by **MR.D** » 15 Feb 2006, 07:29

I prefer the 5-5-5 deal

5 AK, 5 storm, 5 Crashers.

Pretty damn good attack force if you ask me.. and if there aren't any planes to attack, send in the jethros as shields.

If you don't send any AA whatsoever into an advancing group.. its your own damn fault if they all get paralized.

Forboding Angel · Post by **Forboding Angel** » 15 Feb 2006, 07:29

heh, llt'sm are the mainstay of my base defence.

Core defences while they are good, I am used to them used to sucking, so I use units for defence and I doubt that will ever change.

BTW the GAAT gun is just sick now. I love it. I may eventually add them to my defence plan.

NOiZE · Post by **NOiZE** » 15 Feb 2006, 12:18

Code: Select all

		Solar	Adv.Solar	factor
Metal		115	393		3.4
Energy		660	5412		8.2
BuildTime	2495	9945		3.9

Output		75	20		3.8

So metal wise the advanced solar gives you more a bit bang for ya buck.. but energy wise it cost more than double! So you need a good Energy economy be4 you build those advanced solars

Spring RTS Engine

Absolute Annihilation: Spring[old]