Back from the Grave - Engines of War, playable version!

[SeanHeron]

Edit - By popular demand:
To play you will need three files - the map (Busan.sd7), the game file (EnginesofWar-alpha.sd7) and the LUPS file (LUPS_MODULE.sdz). The last two go in your Spring/games/ (or Spring/mods/ ) folder.
The game file will be updated from time to time (same link though).
----
Since I've been a slob with regard to keeping the Spring forum informed (and other things to be honest, but no more of that), and because the project had fallen aslumber, I'd like to say that:

(I feel I'm forced to phrase it thusly - )
IMA REANNOUNCE OUR GAME !!

Engines of War - (The Battle for Busan)



Proudly presented to you with blessings by Icefrog* himself**!

Thanks to a phenomenal effort by Alter-Heide over the past two weeks, we finally have a pretty good looking and most certainly playable version up and running! Grab it here, see it there. You'll also need the map, and this LUPS file [goes in mod-folder] (and you'll need to add one AI to play). The unit models you see are for the very most part by bobthedinosaur - and I'd like to thank him here for the incredible amount of work he's put into the game, not just modelling and texturing, but animating, setting up the unitdefs, adding sounds, CEG effects, the lot.

So you'd actually like to know what the game is about ? Well, you could call it the spiritual successor of "War Evolution" and "ZoyShooter" - or a DotA clone in a Sci-fi setting :D. Basically, you steer a single Hero unit - your Engine - around the map, destroying as many AI controlled Vehicles and lesser Mechas as you can, while always keeping an eye on your opponents Engines, and downing them whenever you have the opportunity.
Aim of the game is to Cripple the enemies base - the way you get there is usually by increasing your experience (and thus levels, abilities and stats) faster than that of your opponents. Emphasis is on skillful control of your Engine, situational awareness and teamplay - though an ounce of luck won't hurt either.

For those of you that may not have followed it, we've been working on the game for over a year now (though for a good part of the year there wasn't actually any work done... largely thanks to me :/). Check out our IndieDB page if you want to see what we've been up to over that time.

*You don't know who Icefrog is? Go away...
** Seriously! I quote his email to me: "No I would not find it insulting. Best of luck"

Busan - ready to be trashed

Please keep in mind, this is still a rather rough version, and as such there will be a variety of glitches. We intend to be giving you a somewhat improved version over the next few days, so if you want to skip some bugs, be patient.
Some known issues!:
- At the higher level vehicle waves, there is a serious issue with wreckage clogging esp. bridges as well as paths and units getting stuck - this will be addressed shortly.
- Our GUI still has a number of shortcomings. If you use the Spring-Engine Gui, you'll be going on the safe side.
- Switching from walk to run (or vice versa) causes the Engine to forget it's orders...
- Balance is likely way off whack
- Victory condition is nigh on unachievable (destroy all three of the enemies Dropships) - will be changed also
- Map height and layout has some issues - and the texture's not very pretty (sorry Picasso, needed to be said)
- Engine abilities don't have any effects... edit: no SFX - they work game wise!
To name just a few.

More info tomorrow. Also, we'll be having a test game at 17:00 UTC tomorrow (Sunday) - and potentially each week after that. We'd be happy to see you! I'm off to bed now, kind regards, Sean.

Credits (not exhaustive):
bobthedinosaur - generally everything besides the Lua code and map
Alter-Heide - all the more involved code

Skystar - more code
Sean Heron - Game idea, a little code
PicassoCT - the Busan map
Garret DeChellis - the Pilot images
Guessmyname - numerous unit models
Argh - most of the of the Buildings and WorldBuilder
Wolf-in-Exile texture of the Bishop and Ballista (+more?)
Smoth - a new set of Engine textures, and normals fixing
Centurion a number of units and models
Various Modelbase contributors - A number of buildings and features (eg the Fusions - Mr.D, Cremuss ? Fraid I Don't know).
- Pressureline for certain

Edit2: Totally forgot the various coders whose gadgets and widgets we use - to be added soon. (I guess an honourable mention also goes to our Spring Engine devs - without who the whole game wouldn't exist)

Edit: Added Wolf-in-Exile and Centurion to credits - Wolf in Exile in particular did the sweet texture to the Bishop and Ballista!
While I'm at it, I'd like to note that credits / licences have not been sorted out within the Game-folder yet. As such, it's meant as a "private" test version (which will be removed again later) - please refrain from uploading to Jobjol or such.

[bobthedinosaur]

I need to find players to KILL

[smoth]

out of curiosity, why world builder?

[bobthedinosaur]

probably because when they originally made the busan map a year ago they were using world builder to set it up

[smoth]

Well was just curious, wanted to see what feature that I could add to feature placer as there has been so much issue

[bobthedinosaur]

i just played a fun game with myself by myself... and some ai. any ways. i find the controls difficult. before when we had the WASD for movement and click to kill set up like diablo it seemed easier for me. now it seem i get kill a lot faster by getting into places i don't want to be and not getting out of them as fast as i would like. the gui on top with the engine controls. nice idea, it just doens't need to be that big. kind of blocking the view if you play on smaller resolutions. some thing on the map (if you plan on making it busan only) are kind of iffy. like the robots that are kid size when compared to the kiwki mart, and the strange tree house buildings, and some of the excessive solar power, and the little houses. there rest feels good tho, like a real war scene in metropolis (especially with the choppers and spot lights great touch!)

thats all i have for now i guess ill have to play more later for some more feedback

[MidKnight]

Woohoo!
I'm really glad to see that this thing's back on the rails!

[Wombat]

just played it. fukkin nice job is all i got to say <3

[KaiserJ]

man i have to try this

good to see you back heron

i feel like an inner city child, seeing his father again for a few days after so many years before you leave again leaving me with a crack addicted mother

[PicassoCT]

Hey, she wanted to know whats in the pipe, and after the first breath, she wanted to know it again and again. Its not my fault, Kaiser.

[SeanHeron]

@All - yeah we on the team are pretty happy to have it running as well, thanks :).

@Smoth - it's like Bob said, it was what came with the buildings attached, and had built in support for placing buildings (which FeaturePlacer might now also have for all I know

@Kaiser - has Picasso infected you or something ? I'm humoured by the comparison though.

Regarding some of Bobs comments - I agree on most of those points. Definitely want to pimp/improve the Building placement for Busan - this is just a rough.
The issue of unit control is probably the strongest you mention - I really dislike how the Engines wander of at times as well. We'll look into keyboard steering again I should think

Soo, some more info, for those wanting to play (all info is just current state - may be prone to change):
A rough description of the Engines -
The Hellbore is a close quarters heavy hitter - and will take some punishment itself. It has the "Rampage" ability (higher rate of fire) as well as an area stun centred on self.
The Bishop is the Sniper he looks - has an EMP to be fired (will only stun smaller units - if your lucky... ), and a short invis/cloak.
Helios is not as mean as he might make out to be (at the moment). He's geared towards support, with a rather puny weapon, but an impressive repair ability and a short distance phase shift/jump.
Finally the Ballista can dish out some serious damage from a distance, especially if he engages his Adv. Missile system. Don't let yourself get caught too close though, since your Air support is not going to counter your measly HitPoints.

All Engines have to engage in Heat management - almost everything you do will produce heat: Moving at flank/run speed, firing weapons, using abilities, even taking damage (yeah that can be double ouch...). At over 90% of your Heat capacity, things start getting bad - your speed is restricted to walking, abilities are not available, etc.
So you might ponder grabbing some extra heat-sinks at level-up to keep the hot in check!

Some less interesting info: The concept of XP I'd guess is broadly clear. So far, you get XP not just for kills, but for all enemy units that die within a certain radius of you - Engines and Conventional forces are not weighted yet, everything is worth one XP.
Enough of experience - what you really want are Levelups, and the abilities you gain with them.

@Picasso - if this was in the Engines of War subforum, your post would be dead - believe me .

[bobthedinosaur]

I don't have time right now. But if you need some more building features that are more neoTokyo / Pusan looking I can make some.

Also. You should probably request to move this to the sub forum, so you can moderate it.

[smoth]

featureplacer can do units and features yes. try it, it is a mod option in gundam.

[SeanHeron]

Well, I was kinda afraid noone would turn up, but PicassoCT, basket and I had a playtest game just now .
Worked well in principle, and some very helpful feedback and bug-indications came out of it. So probably be doing the same again next Sunday - I might make a thread in our subforum.

[zwzsg]

The player mech really need to be buffed, in HP, in firepower, and in speed. Right now it's spend a minute walking from base to front line, die with a few shots from lowly tanks without even getting a chance to escape.

And I wish I had more control of my mech, steal KP's shoot'n'run code!

[Wombat]

yup, getting from spawn to front takes ridicuosly long. i would also personally see much more enemy units for bigger massacre. didnt have time to test all mechs, but do any of them got jump ability ? (i see helios got 'something', could be added for more mechs tho) i would also implement some shields, instead of hp buff. tbh game needs to be bit more dynamic, atm its rush front and let boi shoot.

[SeanHeron]

Thanks for giving it a try guys! My impression though is that your comments are geared towards playing the game alone: eg in Dota you do walk for quite a while to get to the front as well (though I agree with you, it sometimes feels awful long to me also) - one of the things we talked about after the test game, was that increased mobility across the map would certainly be a good thing (something akin to Portals in DotA - we were considering a tunnel network).

@ Z, either you haven't played DotA in a while, or ever: rush headlong into the enemy there, and you will also die from a few hits from the lowly creeps :) - at least at low levels, that is. The early game there (which we're emulating) basicly consists of just lingering around behind your wave, getting XP, getting in last-hits (for gold - we may make an equivalent somewhen), and looking for opportunities to take down the enemy hero. I'll give you that it may be an issue that the later wave vehicles are still a tad strong compared with even leveled-up engines, though.
Like I said in an earlier post, I agree on better/closer control - but I reckon it's going to be a compromise between now (default) and your shoot and run. I don't feel like clicking for every shot my Engine is to fire...

Back on single player - given that it's difficult to get a game with 6-10 people together, it'd be nice to have a version for alone that has some of the features your asking for (more units to blow up, stronger Engine from the beginning, etc.). However, it's a question of allocating time to set that up, and I'm afraid at the moment I'd rather spend it on the core game (glad if anybody feels like making a mod though, of course).

@ Wombat, abilities are certainly still in flux - Shields is a cool idea, we were thinking about doing temporary invincibility. Or did you mean shields for all units, and rather than HP-repair, shield loading up? Jump - like the other Abilities, has no SFX at the moment. I'm sceptical of giving it to many more Engines, as it's a powerful ability - and on the other hand, if everyone has it, you'll just see one person jump and the next jump after him, like so many frogs .

[zwzsg]

Z, either you haven't played DotA in a while, or ever: rush headlong into the enemy there, and you will also die from a few hits from the lowly creeps

I played a little bit of LoL, and there:
1) You pretty much one shot every mob, if not kill more than one per shot
2) You can easily dance in and out of the frontline

I don't feel like clicking for every shot my Engine is to fire...

Keep LMD down!

there is a serious issue with wreckage clogging esp. bridges as well as paths and units getting stuck - this will be addressed shortly.

Yeah. Can't you just make wreckage passable, or disappear after a while ? (here take this gadget).
And why can't I attack ground?


I see you put lots of work into the GUI, but it isn't perfect yet:
- There's no tooltip. It would be much better to have info on enemy units (and friendly, and structures, ...) when mouse overed.
- If I click anywhere during the start count down, the mech selection screen doesn't appear (but I can still build one from factory)
- Engine control widget hides the chat. Does it serve any other purpose than showing a walk/run button?
- If I disable the engine-info widget, then reneable it, it doesn't show until I die (though that's a very minor bug)
- To repair, I had to click on the button, then on myself. I would have expected to instantly apply the repair to me. Same for EMP.
- JumpJet was lacking range indicator, and some gfx when activated. EMP also need some EMP.
- Repair, JumpJet, EMP Shoot, etc.. apparently require me to click the button on the left-middle side of the screen, but there's no cooldown indicator there. The cooldown are in tiny font in bottom right window. Use something like KP's SIGTERM button.
- In general, have more big colored gauges and less tiny white digit blended within text.
- Overally the GUI would be better if the mech wasn't selected, but instead redirect move and attack command to that one mech. And added custom button for the custom ability. Make sure they have hotkeys too.

[knorke]

downloaded and played a bit.
Generally liked it and looks promising.
Usually dota/lol are not the kind of games i like. (though played similiar wc3 maps on LAN quite a bit and some were ok)

random comments:
-Units all look very cool :)
-effects too!
First impression was good with the whole city but still good fps.
-The Engines are a bit too grey maybe? More teamcolor might make them look better and also help in MP?
-The "engine controll" is on the chat -> cant read chat.
-later turned the Night widget of as I could not see what was going on.
-At first did not know why heat kept rising (was running all the time)
-In first game, my mech (the most left one i think) was walking backwards all the time and would not shot. Not sure if i got it unfucked or restarted.
-Did not really notice what "Rampage" does. Now read that it gives better rof. Hm. Maybe make it fire more guns or different gfx or something. Though i only tried that mech briefly maybe Rampage gets better at levels.
-Playing with the Ballistica mech was alot more fun.
-There was one turret with completly black texture i think.
-After dying, having to walk to front was a bit boring. Closer spawns maybe? But dont know how it plays in MP.
-I missed having the tooltip to mouse over units to see what they are.

UI:
-cool to see custom ui!
-Instead of "heat > 80%" warning just make the heat display turn red or something. This kind of pop-ups are more what i expect to see in an application but not in a game. Or just make heat display slowly fade from blue to red and at 80% it starts flashing etc.
-Same for health/xp less white numbers, more bars, graphs and color usage.
-Would be better if all buttons/informations where in one place, ie at bottom.

[SeanHeron]

Note: knorke got in before my reply - now I had to quote stuff .

I played a little bit of LoL, and there:
1) You pretty much one shot every mob, if not kill more than one per shot
2) You can easily dance in and out of the frontline

LoL must be pretty different to DotA then (at least some ways). Of course you're right in saying we don't need to stick to the current concept as if it were set in stone. (Dancing in and out of frontline - possible in DotA as well - is hardly going to be possible giving almost exclusively ranged weapons...)

Can't you just make wreckage passable, or disappear after a while ? (here take this gadget).
And why can't I attack ground?

Like I said, wreckage will be addressed (it's a mix of some of the death scripts spamming too much big wreckage/ burning units, and wreckage being to sturdy). I did have your gadget in the back of my head also though :).
And attack ground - to shoot wreckage? Why else would you want to...

I'll digest the GUI stuff later - looked mostly correct to me though.

@knorke thanks for the feedback! Afraid I'm off though, I'll reply later.